Buying goats from a CL in goat herd

[mamato3]

Ive got this amazing deal work out to get 2 young does and get them bred she will bring them hear as she is trading me the goat for some cages. I can take them back yearly to get bred. And its a price i can afford as im trading her.
Know the problem she has had CL in her herd before so it might be in the ground or around. She has never seen it in the 2 im getting but she want to let me know. Her herd is negative for CAE. So whats your onion? To get or not to get. 1 other problem even if i go the extra mile to get CL Negative goats the goats next door all came from a sell barn so they might give it to my goats. So im thinking of getting them and hoping for the best. So am i crazy and should i try to go that extra mile to get a CL Negative goat. And i have a budget i cant spend more then $100 for the pair so could i find a CL negative goats in that price range?

[mary,tx]

I'm afraid of cl, so if it was me, I'd wait for something else to come along.

[mekasmom]

I personally wouldn't worry about it. If you are concerned, just be sure to pasteurize the milk. It is not a reportable disease in the US, and it is estimated that almost 80% off all the goat herds in the nations have had a goat with CL at one time or another. It's very widespread. Just pick a pair that you cannot feel lumps on anywhere. I've bought many goats at livestock auctions. I just feel them for lumps first. And I've not had any health issues for anyone here or for my dogs that have consumed the milk.
Goats have been on this planet for thousands of years, and have been the main milk source all over the world. How many years have they survived? and how many years have people tested for CL or CAE? If they survived for at least 2000+ years before there was even testing, then why suddenly worry because they can test for it now?
We have to keep things in perspective. If the price is reasonable, then I would buy the does.

[SherrieC]

Well, the lumps will show up After you move them ; ) It can be caught by any warm blooded animal, you and your children. It will stay in your soil, so if they have it, then you've limited yourself. If you don't have any young children to worry over? Or plan on ever "getting into the goat biz?" Then it would be o.k.
It would at least be better than buying from an auction.
If no lumps show up in a month you probably lucked out
For myself I would run screaming the other way.

It is possible to find cheap and healthy goats, but if you can only spend the $ 100, can you afford the $ 1- $ 2 a day for their upkeep? That sounds terrible and I don't mean it that way, Consider though it is almost cheaper to buy milk than keep goats, and goat meat is free all the time "whether to a good home"
It is possible, maybe to email breeders in your area even, and let them know you are looking for a Non registered doe kid. I know breeders on occasion have a doe kid born with More than two teats, or a Wrong colored Togg, Saanen, Obe, Or a Nubian with an ugly bite. Or a first freshener with a udder Not fit for showing or brood doe status. Or even a whoops baby they don't want to deal with like a Snubian. Of course that doesn't guarantee a clean goat either. Because anybody is only as good as their word.
You also could if you have a large enough place, take them keep them in Quarantine for a couple months where you don't plan on actually keeping them. If they break out in CL lumps decide what you will do then, and if they don't youre in the clear.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I wouldn't get them. Why ask for and invite a potential problem? There are herds around where you can get a *known* healthy goat.

CL is contagious to humans, and with a hubby on anti-rejection drugs, there's NO way I want a CL potential on my farm.

People who have clean herds don't even wear shoes to the barn that have possibly gotten CL contamination on them when visiting other farms or going to the county fair. It's called bio-security.

[firefly81]

i would run the other way. cl once its in your ground it will be there forever. i would wait and something will come along that is healthy and in your price range.

[mygoat]

Everything about animal husbandry says to avoid diseased animals. I would NOT bring them home. CL will make your herd unmarketable, and you risk exposing yourself, your children, or your family to it. It can also infect rabbits, cows, horses etc and live in the soil/environment for 10+ years. If they had positives there that had abscesses that ruptured, it is STILL there, likely. After a while, their goats will likely show less abscesses as long as they are unstressed... But if they are stressed (like during movement) they are more susceptible to infection as well as developing an abscess.

And quite honestly, the main reason people have CL in their herds is because they either don't care (faulty reasoning, IMO) or aren't knowledgeable at time of purchase. That it is widespread does not make it OK to not worry about it. It is shown that CL positive animals are a detriment to a breeding program for many reasons - mainly that productivity of infected animals are compromised. Even meat carcasses with more than two abscesses are deemed unfit for consumption - so with internal abscesses you may run into trouble. But if isolation, testing, biosecurty, and avoiding positive herds will drasically minimize the likelihood of getting the disease, then it's worth it. I don't even show for fear of picking up the disease. The only way I'd show is if I could trailer my animals at the show. I'd also probably spray down hooves with Alcohol after being in the ring, too.

As for your neighbors goats being sale barn animals, it will be in your best interest to fence your goats so their goats do NOT share a fenceline with yours. Not even for just CL reasons, but also because they could transmit other diseases to your goats, like sore mouth, pinkeye, etc.

[yarrow]

CL is what I call my line in the sand... We've never had a case of CL and we are NEVER gonna have CL.. if I were to ever have a case of CL pop up in one of my goats.. that's it for us.. no more goats... EVER.. (having made myself that promise BEFORE I ever bought my first goat. I rarely bring new goats in and when I do they spend the first six months here isolated from my own goats... just waiting to see if the stress of moving will make a CL abscess pop up... thankfully that has never happened) but again... I'm careful. I look for scars and such on not only the goat I'm buying... but the other does in the herd as well.

As Alice pointed out.. bio-security is a biggie.. NO one & I mean NO ONE goes into my barns, if I have any doubts about where & what they've been around. They don't pet on the goats over the fences, without first cleaning their hands. They park at the edge of my drive. We bring goats out & load there, I don't want their vehicles & shoes/clothes driving out where my goats are. It's simply not worth the risk/worry. Am I over the edge??? sure I am.. but my herd is CL free! Heck I've never even seen a CL abscess except online! (CL is also the reason I've never even been to a sale/auction barn even to just watch... and there a goat auction, along with all sorts of other critters.. every saturday, 6 miles from my house) We do no outside breedings.

As Sherrie said.. there are ways to find less expensive goats (from clean herds) not always, but sometimes.. you just have to get creative.

As you can tell just by reading the responses.. Not many people are in the middle on the subject of CL... It's either No way/NO how.. or CL isn't that big of an issue/ don't worry about it.. .funny how the not a big deal people.. well they are the ones whose goats always seem to have *splinters* & *spider bites* bumps & lumps LOL

susie, mo ozarks

[Lazy J]

BAD DEAL! BAD DEAL! BAD DEAL! BAD DEAL!

Did I mention it is a BAD DEAL?

[SherrieC]

Lazy J. Lol!

My first responce was going to be.
"Noooooooooooooooooooooo"
But then I thought maybe I might give a little more in depth answer.

[RedSonja]

It was nice of them to be honest with you up front.

I would have to agree with the "run far away" chorus.

-Sonja

[stanb999]

I wouldn't knowingly buy a sick goat. Period.

Would you get one with one teet and three legs? Tho even them it couldn't spread it to others.

[LoneStrChic23]

I would pass.

IMO, you get what you pay for. The risk that CL poses is just not worth the good price IMO.

I desperately wanted goats about 4 years ago, and at the time I was on a VERY tight budget.

Did the hard thing and told myself "NO!"

This year I finally got my goats. The wait was worth it...... I have pace of mind. My kids can play with the goats without catching something. My goats aren't show quality, but should I choose to go that route in the future, I can bring in new stock in without worrying about my current goats giving something to the new ones...

[Oat Bucket Farm]

No, its not a deal I would take. Save your money and look around. I have never seen a CL abcess either, I only know what I have seen and read online about it. Its not something I ever want to have deal with either.

[julieq]

Originally Posted by Lazy J

BAD DEAL! BAD DEAL! BAD DEAL! BAD DEAL!

Did I mention it is a BAD DEAL?

BAD DEAL! Neither do they test for Johnne's disease in the dairy cattle normally here in the U.S., but CL and Johnne's disease have been linked to Crohn's disease in humans. It's all the avian paratuberculosis virus and DH has actually seen that in lymph nodes of people back when he was in medical school.

And, yes, a goat or two from a clean herd is going to cost more, in fact a lot more. It costs a lot of money to test our herds and maintain a disease free, closed herd status. Please do keep researching and don't purchase until you find those clean goats.

[Laverne]

If you're a mama to 3 then please don't bring in a couple bio hazards that children will touch.

[mygoat]

Originally Posted by julieq

BAD DEAL! Neither do they test for Johnne's disease in the dairy cattle normally here in the U.S., but CL and Johnne's disease have been linked to Crohn's disease in humans. It's all the avian paratuberculosis virus and DH has actually seen that in lymph nodes of people back when he was in medical school.

And, yes, a goat or two from a clean herd is going to cost more, in fact a lot more. It costs a lot of money to test our herds and maintain a disease free, closed herd status. Please do keep researching and don't purchase until you find those clean goats.

CL AND Johne's disease are linked to Chrones? Fascinating! Any links to info on the fact that CL is linked? I know about Johne's - I'm dying to read up on the CL stuff. I find it terrible that Johne's is so common in dairy herds, but if word got out of a link, it would ruin the dairy industry - and that's why I think they secretly won't ever come out with a link. (though I heard secondhand that people at MSU have proven the link, but they can't release it or something? I don't know, as I said it's second hand. I'll inquire more from my source next time I see her).


Yes, if I were buying goats, I'd buy from a CL abscess free (at the very least) and tested for CAE and Johne's. I also prefer not to buy from herds that show, too...

You could get a doeling that's out of a first freshener and a wether for not that expensive. Honestly, even fancy show herds often have doelings that go for 150.00 or so... registered and decent quality. Then if you bought just them, most likely the original herd would let you use their buck. After the doe has her first kids, you could butcher the wether and keep a doe kid, and build your herd from there.

[The Tin Mom]

I will pm you....

[Pony]

YouTube

Just sayin'...

[Oat Bucket Farm]

Originally Posted by Pony

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StHwAffUNxo

Just sayin'...

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