Hard lessons learned

Ranger · #1 01/17/11, 09:40 AM

My pardner in crime, my neighbor, had decided that just going out and buying does was a great idea. I didn't. Sooo we had the first two girls that she got to start our herd tested. BOTH, from totally different places, were high CAE. They both were sold that night to someone who just wants a couple of goats around the place. No papers went with them. Sigh I'm hoping that she listens a little better from now on. Just very sad 'cause I reallly liked the girls.

mekasmom · #2 01/17/11, 09:50 AM

In the US CAE is not a reportable disease. They estimate that over 75% off all herds in the nation have CAE positive goats in them, not all the goats but a member of the herd. It's not that unusual. And many would argue it's not all that bad either, depending upon what you want to use the goats for.

Oat Bucket Farm · #3 01/17/11, 09:53 AM

I'm sorry you have to get attached and then say goodbye to them. I hope you have a better experience next time.

Ranger · #4 01/17/11, 12:05 PM

I'm guessing that the virus has a short life span outside of the animal. Does anyone know for sure how long before it's safe to put clean does into that area. I don't want to go through this again!

**mygoat** · #5 01/17/11, 12:41 PM

CAE doesn't live long outside the body. You could likely put does in the pasture asap. I'm sorry you had to go through this - I had something similar happen to me early on in my goat raising years. It's tough. I bawled as I butchered my does, but I figured the most respectful thing to them is to use their carcass instead of just dumping them in the ground.

As for how bad CAE is, it is documented that it cuts profitiability substantially - for both meat and dairies. If the udder hardens up and the doe can't drop milk for kids or for you to milk - kids will starve and you'll loose money because she stops producing for you - or be a hassle to get the milk to drop. Not to mention the bagging up causes them to dry up for the season or at least act up on the stand/not let kids nurse because it HURTS. A CAE positive herd is bad for sales, and you MUST pull kids to prevent spread. I've even had a doe that got it as a 3 year old before I bought her (early on in my raising, so I didn't know better) - so it CAN be transmitted within an adult herd as well as to kids - it is thought that it depends on the virulence of the strain, but not a lot of research has been done to know for sure. I loved that doe but I had to put her down after she kidded out. One of the hardest things I've ever done in regards to raising goats.

If all it takes to prevent the spread of a disease is testing, isolation, and culling - then it should be in everyone's interest to raise at least 2 generations on prevention and help eliminate it. If everyone tried, the disease could be eliminated.

Ranger · #6 01/17/11, 01:22 PM

Thanks for the info, mygoat, (sorry I don't know any other name lol). Do you know whether or not the goat house would retain it any longer? Also, has anyone used a Henry Milker? I'm looking to possibly buy one.

**mygoat** · #7 01/17/11, 02:37 PM

Henry milkers are not ideal, IMO, except for an emergency milker. Where a normal milker would pulsate and let the sphincter at the end of the teat relax (and not overly stress the teat tissues as well), the henry milker has constant suction on the teat. Not only could this hypothetically cause mastitis simply from the sphincter being open that entire time, it could cause a permanently weak sphincter (leaky teats, mastitis issues) and bulbous teats. Some report bruised FF teats from using constant suction 'machines', because of the constant suction.

Hand milking or machine milking with a pulsator is ideal for the udder/teats.

**mygoat** · #8 01/17/11, 02:43 PM

There isn't a lot of information on cross transmission of CAE in adult herds. I would assume that LOTS of salivary contact, contact with birthing fluids, blood, and other bodily fluids (though it seems it is NOT transmitted through mating fluids) would cause it. I would wash feed pans, water troughs, change bedding, and remove any food (hay etc) that was chewed on by the other goats. You could also leave the pastures/barn open for several weeks if you're worried, that would likely eliminate any contamination pretty well - it would have to be pretty unusual circumstances for it to infect a goat after a few weeks.

I would buy from tested clean herds ONLY. Buy from herds that are either tested for CL or are abscess free. Make sure the entire herd is tested CAE free. I would even buy from a herd that has CAE positive does if they yearly test, pull kids at birth, and raise on prevention (and don't use milk from the positive does to raise kids even if it IS pasteurized). IMO, that would show that they are maintaining the disease in a responsible manner. I almost bought some doelings from a herd in OH who have two positive does in their herd - but they told me that they test every year and haven't had anybody convert, and they haven't been informed of any of their doelings testing positive from buyers. They don't use the milk from positive does to feed any kids, too. I always blood test goats before I buy anyways, unless they have a negative within 6 months and the entire herd is clear.

I always pull blood and test for CL, CAE, and Johne's before I buy. I don't test for brucella because I'm in a brucella free state (michigan).

Ranger · #9 01/17/11, 07:44 PM

We're planning to buy from farms that test, check the dam's tests, and test either before or just after we get the does. With a contract that they can be returned if there's a problem. Sorry, I don't even know what "Johne's" is.

**mygoat** · #10 01/17/11, 10:24 PM

http://www.adga.org/index.php?option...oats&Itemid=87

Adga's pamphlet on Johne's disease. Johne's disease is thought to be linked to Chrone's disease in humans - though it is doubtful that a true link will ever be proven because it would KILL the dairy industry because a good percent of dairy herds in america are infected with Johne's. That would pull some money out of some people's pockets - heaven forbid that we do that - better to let some people suffer from Chrone's disease. :

I always, always, always practice isolation. Whenever you bring ANY goat home, you should keep them in an isolation pen for at LEAST a month. My goats are tested before purchase, and tested again 3 months later. After that test comes back negative, they are introduced to the herd. This limits exposure to not only the 'big name' diseases like CL, CAE, and Johne's, but also common diseases like sore mouth, pinkeye, pneumonia, etc.