Will a doe that aborted bag up?

LaManchaPaul · #1 12/10/10, 08:04 PM

I believe that Coralita (MiniMancha) was butted and aborted at 4 & 1/2 months preggo. She aborted during the night and the next AM, I had to help her complete the delivery. Her udder had not bagged up. Four days later, and still no milk.

Will she go into milk? Paul

desertshi · #2 12/10/10, 08:47 PM

I wouldn't think so because she didn't get the hormones that cause natural birth....BUT, I have no experience with animals that haven't bagged up yet. I know if she had already bagged you could have stimulated her into production.

Sorry about your doe! And so late in pregnancy, so sad.

susanne · #3 12/10/10, 09:20 PM

very rarely does a doe abort because she was butted. late abortion can be mineral deficiency ( iron, copper, selenium? ) or disease ( chlamydia, brucella just name two), or with the fetus was something wrong.

a healthy doe aborting this late in her pregnancy should come into milk. sounds like something is missing.
did you try and milk her?

myheaven · #4 12/10/10, 10:40 PM

I had a doe give birth premature to a little buck. She was about 3 weeks early. She started lactating. But her baby was born live and lived for a littel over 12 hrs. She did get to lick her baby and he did suck a little on her.
I would start milking her to bring in her milk.

wintrrwolf · #5 12/11/10, 08:03 AM

Gypsy aborted 3 weeks early due to dog attack, her baby was born dead. She had already started an udder when this happened so I went ahead and milked her for a week. At 4.5 months yours should had started to develop some udder even if slight. Would go ahead and try to milk her.
I stopped on Gypsy simply because she had become very depressed and was still recovering from the attack.

LaManchaPaul · #6 12/11/10, 08:17 AM

Thanks for your responses. This is her second freshening. The kid looked full term. I put her on the stand morning and evening to feed her. She has no milk.

Suzanne, they have loose minerals, I bolus and give BoSe. There have been no previous birthing problems and I haven't introduced new stock for two years.

Suzie the herdqueen is down-right mean.

andiplus8 · #7 12/11/10, 09:27 AM

oh I'm so sorry. That is heartbreaking when that happens. We HAD a herd queen that caused one of our first fresheners to abort. She was very mean. She even killed one of our wethers by butting him so hard in the side that she broke a rib and it caused internal bleeding. We finally got rid of her after that. No matter how much milk she gave it wasn't worth the other animals being hurt.

So I understand how this could have happened from being "butted".

susanne · #8 12/11/10, 03:56 PM

paul sometimes this is caused by iodine deficiency. typical is lack of milk.

desertshi · #9 12/11/10, 04:57 PM

I absolutely can relate to the horribly MEAN herd queen. Ours, Missy, has horns and that makes it worse. I am seriously, seriously debating cutting those suckers off! She is nasty, won't let anyone else eat except her last doeling, chases everyone else and torments them.....I've almost thought about seperating her with her doeling (now 10 mo and preggo) because I am afraid she will cause the others to abort. I have already pulled the two lowest on the totem pole but then she just finds another one to torcher. Little bugger.

LaManchaPaul · #10 12/11/10, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

paul sometimes this is caused by iodine deficiency. typical is lack of milk.

Suzanne, please tell me more. I haven't heard of this before. How do I know and what do I do to correct any deficiency? Paul

susanne · #11 12/11/10, 11:15 PM

paul this is very complex and you might learn more doing some research.
if this is the case with your doe, i have no clue. you would know if you send some placenta or kid in for testing. that she made no milk let me think she is missing something and had a fetus that died prior and why she aborted.

the real problem with minerals is that we just supplement with one because we hear this is what the animal need and don't think that the whole mineral thing is a very sensitive wheel. add one and another one will be out of balance.
one example i know a breeder that supplemented selenium every month and the result was a severely copper deficient herd.
insted of just adding, we need to know how to balance the feed and mineral ratio. we need to know the quality of our water to counter balance. idealy we need to know the value of the hay we are feeding. too much legume (like in alfa( and animals need more iodine.

as you can see, very complex and not enough room here.

sorry for the lost kid.
sometimes it is very hard to understand when we think we do all things right.

Cheribelle · #12 12/12/10, 03:41 AM

Last year I had a first timer lose her twins a few weeks early. Then about a week +/- later I ended up with some bottle babies. I put one in with her, and her milk did come in. So I would say Yes, It Is possible, but you may need a baby to stimulate her. Allison raised her little stepson up very well.

Natural Beauty Farm · #13 12/12/10, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

...this is very complex and you might learn more doing some research.

Susanne I am very interested in where you found this information and did your research. If you have time could you make a separate post that we could all learn from. Maybe it could become a sticky.

Quote:

feeding too much legume (like in alfa( and animals need more iodine.

I feed western Alfalfa, good (cattle) mineral mix, grass hay 24/7 year round here and supplement with treats like bananas, apples, raisins, gram crackers, citrus, dried fruit, and carrots when I think about it, and they get brush cuttings when we go for walks, so I'm very interested to see data that I'm hurting my girls by doing this. Everyone is healthy here, delivers fine and unassisted, kids nurse immediately. Only problem I ever had in 15 years was with a bucks sperm count out of a guy I brought home from MI, after a year here though he was ready for breeding season.

LaManchaPaul · #14 12/12/10, 06:39 PM

Well, the doe still isn't in milk and I'm not expecting a kid for a few weeks yet.

You know Suzanne, I have been feeding perennial peanut hay morning and evening (almost always available to them). One never knows what should be done. The lack of iodine might just be an issue here.

Telling myself that I did all that I knew to do at the time, I have stopped beating myself up over it. I have separated Suzie from the other preggos in case it was her actions that caused it.

ebonyfarms · #15 12/12/10, 09:01 PM

I had heard that you could paint iodine on the tail and see how fast the skin absorbs it. If it was absorbed quickly, iodine was needed in thier diet. I was trying to back what I heard by finding a site to reaffirm my memory. I did find something on humans and also a pretty good article on milk goiters that refered to iodine deficency.

here is the link for the human article: http://altmedangel.com/iodine.htm

And the link for milk goiters in goats referencing iodine deficency: http://www.goatbiology.com/milkgoiter.html