How Much to Feed Bottle Kids?

[Pony]

Okay, I tried to search this, and while I got enough interesting results to provide many hours of enjoyable reading, I did not find the answer to my question:

How much do you folks with large bred goats feed your bottle kids?

I'm about losing what's left of my mind trying to keep three apparently not-so-little bellies filled.

They're goats, of course, so there's the chance that they'll drink whatever I give them and more, but golly! I thought the dam was supposed to produce enough... or even half enough...

[KSALguy]

you have two doelings and one buckling right? maybe sell the buckling to make more room at the table? unless you have plans for him, i cant be much help on the bottle feeding as we never bottle fed any goats, but we did bottle feed some Barbado lambs, they took a couple beer bottles of milk two or three times a day.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by KSALguy

you have two doelings and one buckling right? maybe sell the buckling to make more room at the table? unless you have plans for him, i cant be much help on the bottle feeding as we never bottle fed any goats, but we did bottle feed some Barbado lambs, they took a couple beer bottles of milk two or three times a day.

Thanks.

We do have plans to put the buckling into the freezer. I may sell off one of the doelings, as the more I look at the dam's teats, the more I am convinced that improper management and not genetics caused her poor teat conformation. Poor thing! Almost have to fold the teat in two lengthwise to milk her out, it's so wide...

[KSALguy]

well, i guess it depends on how many milkers you want, it sounds like your going to cull her? maybe put her in the freezer?

[Natural Beauty Farm]

Mine get all the milk they want until they don't want it anymore. Its cold free choice. I'd say some are drinking upwards of 6lbs of milk a day

[mygoat]

Another option is to just euth that buckling. Or, if the dam is giving enough, just pull the doe kids and bottle raise them, and let her raise the buckling alone. She may be able to handle just the one.

I start my kids out and let them eat as much as they can per feeding until they're up to 16 oz 4x per day. Once they're 2-3 weeks old, I go down to 3x per day, and giving 20-24 oz. Last time I raised out full size replacement doelings, I fed a group of 3 so that they used up a gallon every day.

[Goat Servant]

Fiasco sez 10% of body weight.
But I just go by if the bellies are reasonably full. Big help huh.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by KSALguy

well, i guess it depends on how many milkers you want, it sounds like your going to cull her? maybe put her in the freezer?

Yeah, just haven't decided when to do it.

She still gives me a half gallon (more or less) in the morning, but I have to hit her with oxytocin to get her to let down. I think that she's started to associate the poke in the thigh with letting down, instead of being on the stand.

This morning, she was just plain cantankerous. Pushed me off the stand (it's wide, and I sit beside the goats while milking), kicked the bucket, fussed and just generally acted like a complete snotrocket.

She's lucky I'm a woman of self-control, or we'd have been packaging her up today.

So I guess she'll go to camp when I find a cheaper milk source, or get sick of her shenanigans, or my hand gives out from milking that blown teat.

I will not breed this doe again, and it's not because of genetics. It's that lousy teat and her lousier attitude.

Hmph. "Muffin" indeed. I think I'm going to name all my does like my Trub... Let's see... Mischief... Brat... Snotty... Miss Attitude... Prissy Pants...

[Pony]

Originally Posted by Goat Servant

Fiasco sez 10% of body weight.
But I just go by if the bellies are reasonably full. Big help huh.

LOL!

That's what I've been doing. They're a month old, and they get about a gallon a day (mixed cow and goat milk).

Maybe they'll eat less if it's cold? Nah, it's so darned chilly here at night now, I'd hate for them to waste the calories heating it up...

Hate to euth the buckling. He's growing so well, and kid meat is just ever so nice...

Got the contact info for an Amish fellow who runs a small dairy up across the border in IA. He sometimes sells milk for a couple of dollars a gallon. If he has some excess, I can head up there with my empty milk jugs and load up for a week. It'll be a heckuva lot cheaper than $4/gallon!

Yeah, I'll hang on to the doe, leave the buckling on her, and hope that the guy in IA has surplus milk to sell. It'll be healthier for the kids, anyway.

[goatkid]

Is this cow's milk or goat milk? If it's cow's milk, be sure his herd is clean of Johnes. You don't want that infecting your property and pasteurizing doesn't kill Johnes like it does CAE. If it's goat milk, I'd be sure it pasteurize it before feeding doelings.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by goatkid

Is this cow's milk or goat milk? If it's cow's milk, be sure his herd is clean of Johnes. You don't want that infecting your property and pasteurizing doesn't kill Johnes like it does CAE. If it's goat milk, I'd be sure it pasteurize it before feeding doelings.

Good point.

It's cow milk. He sells to a commercial dairy, but I know that doesn't necessarily mean he's Johnnes-free.

I'll ask when I contact him. Hm. How do I word that....? Anyone in a diplomatic mood today and want to help me?

[thaiblue12]

I think around that age I was feeding my Nubian bottle kids around 15 oz three times a day. But I was buying whole milk from the grocery store and here is costs $1.58 to $1.99 a gallon.
Also I do not give mine cold milk. One bloated once when I had it a bit too cold, so I zap them for a min in the microwave, I do go to lukewarm once they are around 2 or so months old.

I would ask him if he pasterizes his milk since it would be too heavy on the kid's stomachs.

Or play dumb and say:
I heard their might be something goats can catch from cows, I cannot remember the name of it. Do you test your cows for any diseases and such?

I doubt the big industrial dairies test all there cows for diseases and they dump all their milk into one big vat, pasturize it and call it good, so I am not scared that my goats will catch anything from grocery store milk. If he treats his milk with more care, his cows look good and pasturizes it I would not be scared to use it.
Our dairies here are not allowed to sell us milk off their farm. We have alot of stupid weird laws concerning milk and dairies.
I would keep the buckling on her and grow him till he is eating age. If she can feed one kid well no sense in wasting him.

[mygoat]

Johne's disease is NOT killed by pasteurization.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

This is the bottle schedule we use. We have never dam raised babies, they have always been bottle babies. This is what works for us.

First 3 or 4 days - as often as needed

After that and until 2 weeks old - 4 to 6 oz 4 times a day

2 to 8 weeks - 8 to 20 oz 3 times a day

8 to 12 weeks - 20 oz twice a day

12 to 20 weeks - 20 oz once a day


Until they are between 10 and 12 weeks of age, we warm the bottles. After that we slowly get them used to room temp milk. By the end we set the bottles out about an hour before time to feed and they get it that temp.

[thaiblue12]

Originally Posted by mygoat

Johne's disease is NOT killed by pasteurization.

Well I guess the University of Wisconsin as well as other universities disagree with that statement.

http://www.johnes.org/dairy/control.html

quote from the site:
Pasteurization kills virtually all MAP that may contaminate raw milk as well as other viral and bacterial agents that could affect the health of dairy heifer replacements.

Also if it did not kill almost all of it then some of us would have positive animals due to our use of grocery store cow's milk. I feel safe in using it and have had no issues with it. I would rather use it then milk replacer.

[mygoat]

Most articles I've read say that it isn't completely killed by pasteurization. The key seems to be constant stirring to ensure even temperatures. This is mentioned on that site. Most batch pasteurizers don't move the milk, resuting in uneven heat and improper pasteurization, leaving some MAP still in the milk. It would still lower the numbers and therefore explain the drastically lower numbers of infections from using that milk.

If you pasteurize at home and constantly keep the milk in motion, this is not likely an issue because even heat destroys ALL the MAP present.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

Mygoat is correct and there is actually some speculation that there is a link between Johnne's in store bought milk and a rise in Crohn's disease in humans.

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ar...7sdisease.html

"Neither heat-treating colustrum or pasteurizing milk kills this bacteria; it is quite heat resistant, and like Caseous Lymphadinitis (CL), the organism can live for years in the soil and surrounding environment."

http://ibdcrohns.about.com/od/crohnsdisease/a/map.htm

"The bacteria causing Johne's is shed by the infected cow into her milk. The current pasteurization method is based on High Temperature, Short Time (HTST). This means that the milk is heated to 72º Celsius (162º F) for 15 seconds.1 The time period of 15 seconds has been shown to be insufficient to kill all of the paratuberculosis bacteria.2 As a result, paratuberculosis could live through the pasteurization process and be in cartons of milk on grocery store shelves. In fact, researchers found that up to 25% of milk on store shelves in central and southern England contained paratuberculosis DNA."

http://www.crohns.org/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/me...tes/149004.stm

"It was thought that pasteurising milk could cut the risk of Johne's being transferred to humans, but this is now being questioned."