NEED HELP- problem with goat kids

Tollhouse · #1 10/23/10, 10:05 AM

I need quick advice. Our nigerian dwarf was due this coming week. We checked at midnight -nothing happening. Came out this morning and found her circling around a dead kid who looked like he had been born several hours before. My heart broke, but then around the corner of the stall bounced two other new kids! Fluffy, vigorous. She was paying no attention to them at all. We disposed of the dead kid, closed her in the stall with her babies and waited to see what happened. She has always been our best mom. Always delivers when we're not there, though. Even when I'm checking on her every half hour. Never had a problem nursing her kids. Took great care of them.

But...we waited half an hour, she kept wandering, no nursing going on. Then we spent another hour trying to get them to nurse while we held her. Then milked out some colostrum and fed them with a pritchard-teat bottle (only got a few drops in them). Spent another hour getting them to nurse, and they finally each latched on vigrously twice, for about 5 seconds,tail wagging, etc. Then they fell promptly asleep. Mom comes over to lick them occasionally and makes noises for them, but isn't being quite her normal attentive self yet.

My worry is that they are brand new kids who haven't had enough colostrum yet and are going to start failing fast. Should I run out and get colostrum from another breeder and try them earnestly on the bottle? (I can't milk her b/c she's one of those goats who rears, kicks, is violent when her udder is touched -- took me 1/2 hour to get out an ounce earlier). Or do you think their experience latching on 15 mins ago and the colostrum they received in those few sucks will kick-start the experience. If so, how often should I make sure they are nursing? I am pretty sure they received nothing after they were first born.

Sorry for the long post. Our whole family is just really troubled about this right now.

Head4theHills · #2 10/23/10, 10:12 AM

I'm by no means a pro but I'll give you my ideas...

If they were mine I would make sure they got to suck-if she's a nigerian dwarf you can figure out how to hold her so they can latch on. I used to have to hold 150 lb ewes when they wouldn't let their first lamb suck so I know it's difficult but it can be done. I would shove them up against the wall with my body and hold up a back leg with one arm and latch the lambs on with the free arm. That milk needs to come from her and come through to wake her up. You could rub that dead lamb on the live ones' backs if it's retrievable, that might help her focus on them too.

I don't like getting bottles and different mixes involved when they're so little...I want them getting that colostrum from mama with no interference... she might have had a hard birth or not cleaned yet either so keep a close eye on her.

We just went through this a couple weeks ago with our milk cow, actually... she hadn't cleaned and was on the verge of milk fever and it was tempting to put the calf on a bottle on that first slow couple days but she kept latching on and getting what she could and it turned out. I would hogtie that poor goat and force her to let them suck every time they want to give it a try...she'll come around!

ETA more info-I would try to get them to nurse every two hours-if their tails are wagging and they keep trying trust that they're getting enough each time they try. It's exhausting I know but if she's been a good mama in the past she should kick in and they'll get better at it.

good luck!

motdaugrnds · #3 10/23/10, 10:31 AM

I can tell you what we did the time we had a dam acting like that. We did the same thing you did, i.e. shut them up together in a small area. (They could all see the other goats but couldn't get to them. There was a feeder bin for hay and water on the wall in there.) I would go in often the first few days and tie the dam to one "corner", put my shoulder into her so she could not move around while David would help the 2 kids find the nipple. After a few days of bonding with her kids and getting use to them sucking, all was well; and in the meantime, the kids had received a good amount of collustrum.

HappyFarmer · #4 10/23/10, 10:36 AM

I would NOT get colostrum from another farm or doe unless you plan on bottle babies. The mother will most likely reject the kids if you do. Hold her for the kids to suck or milk her out however you have to do it, hog tie her if need be. They need minimum 1/10th their weight in colustrum within the first 24 hours.

I'm understanding she's not acting normal compared to last kiddings? I'd be checking (bumping) her for another kid inside, possibly dead. Has she passed the placenta? After checking for another kid, I'd give her a shot of Oxytocin to clean her out. Another thought is perhaps she's in pain-torn uterus or something.

Good luck
HF

Tollhouse · #5 10/23/10, 10:44 AM

Thanks for the advice. We are able to hold the mom, and after about 15 minutes of fooling around with the nipple, etc., each kid finally latched on and sucked for about 5 seconds. Wouldn't latch on again. If we get them to latch on for one good long suck every half-hour/45 mins, is that enough for them? I don't want them getting dehydrated.

Goat Servant · #6 10/23/10, 10:44 AM

1) Can you rule out no suck refex?
2) Is doe biting kicking or flinging kids?

Im willing to bet they are getting enough colostrum, remember they nurse wee bits at a time often & you may not have been able to actually witness that yet, especially since she is a secret type.

When kids are starving their bellies are empty & while awake will run around looking for teats & bawling their heads off.

I once had a set of trips who were ADD. Two second suck & they were off. Then back for another quickie they drove me nuts thinking they werent getting enough.

ps the same good momma doe in our eyes sometimes do it different the next season

Head4theHills · #7 10/23/10, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tollhouse

Thanks for the advice. We are able to hold the mom, and after about 15 minutes of fooling around with the nipple, etc., each kid finally latched on and sucked for about 5 seconds. Wouldn't latch on again. If we get them to latch on for one good long suck every half-hour/45 mins, is that enough for them? I don't want them getting dehydrated.

For now, yes that is enough IMO. Keep doing that and hope it improves.

jordan · #8 10/23/10, 11:59 AM

Nothing about what you have described makes me think the kids are in distress (you, on the other hand...). Mom is talking to them and licking them. You say the kids were fluffy and vigorous, so chances are great that they had already nursed. When newborn, they simply do not eat that much and a few seconds at a shot is all they will usually take. You'll do nothing but frustrate yourself and upset mom if you try to keep forcing those kids every hour. They'll eat when they are hungry and you already know that mom has let her milk down.
My advice, leave them alone to continue the bonding process, but you can still look over the side of the stall to check on them.
Lois

Tollhouse · #9 10/23/10, 03:18 PM

Update: All is well! They are nursing vigorously. You are right, Jordan, I was the one who was most distressed. We had a bad experience one where a kid failed so quickly, and I have always regretted not intervening with the bottle earlier. It's left me quite gunshy about situations where the kids aren't nursing regularly from birth.

Thank you everyone for your help!

dm9960 · #10 10/23/10, 03:24 PM

hey, congrats on the new babies!!

Goat Servant · #11 10/23/10, 03:48 PM

Yes, congrats & so glad they are doing well!

jordan · #12 10/23/10, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tollhouse

Update: All is well! They are nursing vigorously. You are right, Jordan, I was the one who was most distressed. We had a bad experience one where a kid failed so quickly, and I have always regretted not intervening with the bottle earlier. It's left me quite gunshy about situations where the kids aren't nursing regularly from birth.

Thank you everyone for your help!

Very happy to hear that all is well

Enjoy those babies!
Lois

Backfourty,MI. · #13 10/23/10, 04:51 PM

Glad everything is working out & she is still turning out to be the Great mom like always!

Where's those darling pictures though? We love babie pictures!!