Remedy for 'not quite' weaned kids

LFRJ · #1 10/04/10, 11:24 AM

Hi there. In advance, please know we're greener than peas, so this will be the first of hundreds of questions.

We brought home our Kinder doe and three kids last weekend. The kids (4 mos. old) had been separated for a solid three weeks, and were reunited with mom upon arrival to our farm. We soon noticed a couple of them nosing mom's udder, but did not observe actual nursing. Mom didn't make any effort to thwart their advances. The first day of milking we were skeptical, but second morning, (after a night in the barn with the kids), mom milked out nothing at all - so we're pretty convinced that one or more of the kids are still at it.

We don't have teat tape, nor do any farm supplies in our area, so we began using the paperish medical tape. Our milk output increased significantly. So we now have something of a solution - problem is, I'm not sure how healthy it is to keep her taped up. Shouldnt' the teat "breath" some? We are taping as loose as possible. To further frustrate, there's the hassle of removing and replacing the tape every milking. We had wanted this to be a smooth transition. The teat does not look pinched or red, but feels warm to the touch, but then they ALWAYS feel warm to me.

Is there anything else we can use or do? How long will this go on? Would a strip of gauze be just as effective as a full covering of tape? They could still suck through it, but not as easily.

Anything I should be looking for to avoid problems? Fortunately, everything else is going smoothly.

Also, her right side always gives a bit more than her left. Why is that?

CaliannG · #2 10/04/10, 12:13 PM

1) You have to separate the kids. Kids will continue nursing far beyond what any of us think is reasonable. I have seen a 6 month old buck attempt to breed his dam, then nurse.

2) Both of the does that I currently have in milk give a bit more on their left side than their right. It is not abnormal, so don't worry about it.

3) Tape can work, but separation is better. Realize that you are taking a chance for infection when you bind up the teats; but sometimes that is the only way to keep the kids off of the doe if you have limited facilities.You might try taping a bit of gauze over the teat, kinda like a bandage, that allows a bit more air, but I would work on keeping them as separate as I could.

4) Another alternative is to separate the kids only at night, and milk first thing in the morning. Then let the kids loose during the day and they will nurse as they will. This might help things if you have a crying dam and/or kids and the noise is driving you crazy.

LFRJ · #3 10/04/10, 06:42 PM

Okay, so what if we were to separate the kids at night? It would be a real pain, but doable. This way, we could remove the tape for at least 12 hours or so, though I can't foresee how much noise the kids would make, thus making for irritated neighbors.

Would this help? How much of a risk are we taking here anyway by keeping her taped?

CaliannG · #4 10/04/10, 07:25 PM

It's not a HUGE risk, it is just more risk than if you didn't tape her. ~smiles~ You should always be aware of risks.

I don't know what your set up is like, but I simply put a doe I wish to milk in the morning in a stall. The kids will probably put up a REAL fuss if they can't see her at all, and not much of one if they can see her. It depends upon what your facilities are like.

I will let you know that this is likely going to be a long term problem. Does have been known to nurse on their dam when they have their *own* babies at their side....AND their dam has a new set of babies.

So you might end up taping for the long term unless you can figure a way to separate them for a good while.

Do you only have the one doe and her babies? Or do you have other goats?

LFRJ · #5 10/04/10, 07:59 PM

We only have the doe & her 3 kids: 2 doelings and a little wether. One of the doelings shows no interest, so they were almost there.

"I will let you know that this is likely going to be a long term problem."

I was afraid of that - though will the tape be enough of a discouragement to correct eventually? Or will a doe in milk now always be a temptation? Our milk schedule is AM & PM/ Separating @ night will give us our morning milk, but we would still need to tape during the day - no? I would have thought the doe would assist by kicking them off her, but I guess not.

Thanks Caliann.

2manydogs · #6 10/05/10, 01:38 AM

Even if she wanted to kick them off, they get real good at sneaking up from behind and sucking down a pint of milk in 2 seconds. I would see if the person you bought them from would board the two trouble makers for a month. This would leave company for her and time for you to get another stall set up. By the time they came back they would be used to being without her. You'd just be reinforcing the prior seperation anyway.

Backfourty,MI. · #7 10/05/10, 09:27 AM

I would seperate the mom & kids at night like Calliann suggested. Prefferably where they could still see each other. Milk her out in the a.m. for your milk then turn her & the kids loose together all day with no tape. You won't get milk in the p.m. but you could try anyways, maybe you might still get some. Then split them back up at night so you get your morning milk.
That way you don't have to tape her at all & your still getting milk.

coso · #8 10/05/10, 12:01 PM

The first goats I had, I had this problem with. The doe would not wean them so I took the doelings to Dads and left them for a couple of months, came back and they would still nurse. Finally left them over at Dads until I dried the doe off. When she kidded out the next year I pulled the kids and bottle fed, put the older doelings back in with her. They would still try to nurse but she would have none of it by then.

Freeholder · #9 10/05/10, 04:02 PM

This is one of the major reasons for bottle-feeding your kids, unless you have facilities to permanently (or at least for several months) keep offspring separated from their dams. I don't, so I bottle-feed.

Sorry, other than that no help to offer other than what has already been said.

Kathleen

wintrrwolf · #10 10/06/10, 08:13 AM

About to start night separation here with Inga and her kids, fun fun...
But when I first got Crystal she was 2 months old and she felt she had to nurse off of Sugar who looked just like her momma, drove Sugar and me nuts. She would sneak in and start nursing and it would take Sugar a few moments to realize that Crystal wasn't one of her boys (they were all white) I think it was around 4 months when Crystal finally stopped trying...but that was with Sugar constantly head butting her.

LFRJ · #11 10/06/10, 12:48 PM

Well, we're just going to have to keep up with the teat tape thing I guess, which is getting old - fast!. The kids were partially bottle fed - the breeder's system is to separate the kids at night, partially milk the mommas in the AM, bottle feed the kids (if they take to it), then reunite the kids with mom for the day. So, they were indeed bottle fed, but not exclusively.

They will still occasionally sneak a peek under there, but the tape has completely cut off any supply to them, and we are fully milking her. (I wouldn't mind sharing, but I'm afraid the kids would NEVER wean if I did). I'm hoping that over time, they will forget all about her udder altogether since there's no longer any pay off, but if the scent of milk continues to entice, or they play it like a slot machine - ever trying in hopes that one day.... then this could go on for a long, long time. (sigh)

mary,tx · #12 10/06/10, 04:13 PM

I have used a bandaid, with just a little Thumz on it. A few tastes of the Thumz is usually discouraging. It's been a number of years since I've bought it (my thumb sucker is a young adult now), but at the time it was sold in the pharmacy area.