Wwyd

[hoggie]

Please, no flames, na sniping, am jast askin garound to see how other people would deal with this - it doesn't even mean I am goign to do what you say, just wanting outside input to try to help me clarify my thoughts.

I currently have 10 goats - 2 billies, 5 nannies, 1 wether who is due in the freezer as soon as I have space, 1 wether who was due to go in the freezer but he is the son of DD's goat and she has decided to keep him and try to train him to harness, and 1 little tiny nanny (this year's kid but very small) wh ois going in the freezer but seems too small to be worth the slaughter fees at the moment.

At the moment they are what I think you would call "dry lotted" - they are penned and fed on hay, alfalfa pellets, and a few oats. At the moment all the nannies are dry as we had some problems during the summer and didn't have time to be milking so dried them off. They are outside, and right now have no shed to run into - previously I have kept them stabled, but at the moment I have a pony in the stable they were in. Hi presence in future is not sure - he is on loan and could go back to his owners.

There is looking to be a shortage of hay here this year, and I am struggling to keep up with things anyway.

How would you decide what to do if you were cutting back on these numbers - I know this probably seems like a no-brainer to any business people out there, but I am struggling with it. I worry what will happen to any I get rid of - I really didn't get them to pass them on as soon as things got tough, but I am really not sure how I can continue at the moment?

Any thoughts/opinions/ideas? Like I say, please keep it nice - I am in a hard place right now

hoggie

[steff bugielski]

If cutting back is what you want to do then keep 1 buck and maybe 2-3 does. I know logically you should keep the best milkers but I always add disposition into the equation. If I like the animal it goes farther than if she produces a lot of milk. I spend a lot of time with mu animals and to keep one that i do not like does not work for me.
With that many your feed costs will be drastically reduced, 10 goats down to 3. And next year you will have babies again.
If you do not want to slaughter them perhaps you could trade them for hay.

[Rockytopsis]

I know what you mean, every year I have to decide who stays and who goes.

Is there a reason why you keep 2 bucks with only 5 does? I have 20 does and only 1 buck now ( I have kept more in the past). So here one of the bucks would leave.

I have a harness goat here that will stay the rest of his life and has been used at many events, so he would stay, I also have several kids that are staying for freezer camp when I get the room, other wise they will go to market or will be sold off the farm, which ever comes first.

Sorry I am not more helpful.

Nancy

[hoggie]

Thanks yes, unfortunately, they are all lovely temperaments LOL. But I have two who I know are good reliable producers, 1 as yet untried (she will be bred for the first time this autumn, but is full sister to ther other two) and two nannies who haven't really "done" for me.

The reason I have two bucks is - um - by accident LOL A bit of a long story, but I couldn't find a buck to buy, so I ended up shaking hands on a deal to buy a pedigree GG in the hopes that she would have a son. Then, before she had even arrived, I suddenlly had someone phone me up to say they had an uncut billy kid I could buy ((who obviously I wouldn't have to wait a year to breed). And so I bought Wilfred. Both of them are lovely "people" Wilfred is more assertive, Chestnut is just like a big puppy despite being 2 years old, but what he would be like if Wilfred wasn't there I don't know.

Logically I should probably get rid of Wilfred, who is part bred and father to the nannies I would keep. Chestnut if pure bred and no relation. But because Wilfred has nothing to sell him on other than his daughters being nice - I don't know what would happen to him if I parted with him. But if I keep him, I can't breed him back to his daughters so really should still keep the other two to keep trying to breed them.

The reason I originally didn't get rid of one of them was because of the problems I had getting Wilfred in the first place - it worried me that I might end up needing a buck, and not be able to get one?

[Alice In TX/MO]

If you can manage it, keep both bucks for a couple of years.

Cull the does down to your favorite, best producing three.

YES, it's hard. I went from 20 down to nine, and I need to get rid of two more.

What I did was write the name of each goat on a slip of paper, then organize them from favorite/best, down to least favorite/worst. That way, the culling list became obvious.

[Our Little Farm]

I have two who I know are good reliable producers

I would keep these two and Chestnut.

Selling all the others will mean less hay needed and a smaller shelter for the winter.

[Backfourty,MI.]

I also think if it were me I would keep just Chestnut & 2 of your favorite doe's. Then if your DD really wants to keep the wether he could be Chesnut's buddy to keep him happy as well.

The others I would sell or trade for hay or other things you may need around your farm.
Alot of folks are bartering for things these days.
Do you have what is like our Craig's list over there? It's free here & that's where I would start.

[myheaven]

I agree with olf. And Im in the same boat. I was hard but I have 5 up forsale. The extra cash and time after they are gone will make a nice bandaid for my wounds so will a nice dinner that I will treat myself to after their sale.

[Our Little Farm]

We have sold animals before when things have got tight and we needed to not have to buy so much feed and hay. You can always get more when things get easier. What is more important, keeping a few animals well with enough feed/care and enough for you and your daughter, or everyone going short?

[KSALguy]

is there any access to pasture? any way you can maybe even use marginal land to do a walk about and have them follow you thru and eat along the way?

i would put all the ones ment for the freezer IN the freezer ASAP, the cart goat is not going to produce anything and can be easily replaced in subsequent kiddings later on, right now is the pench and your breeders are more valuble,

i would keep the two bucks just for the simple fact your location does not lend its self to finding any more stock easily and your going to need some kind of genetic diversity,

how many unrelated does did you start with?

if it knuckles down to it i would keep three does and the two bucks,

[KSALguy]

remimber people she is stuck on an island that has to have EVERYting shipped in, if she gets rid of too many it will be hard go replace later,

[thaiblue12]

I would cut it in half, 1 buck ( chesnut), 1 wether ( your daughter's) and 3 does.
I would sell the other 5, that could pay for the 5 remaining goats feed.
I sell goats and I put aside a certain amount to pay for feed for the goats that stay. I do the same with chicken sales.
I would not put any in the freezer as you would still be tight in buying hay, I would sell.
If things get tighter down the line then you can still sell another 2 later on.

If hay is not available to you at all then feed them alfalfa pellets. Some feed them instead of hay. I have too many goats for that to be cost effective for me, but you can try it if you cannot get your hand on hay or it is far too costly. Just put it out free choice instead of hay.

[Oat Bucket Farm]

Originally Posted by Backfourty,MI.

I also think if it were me I would keep just Chestnut & 2 of your favorite doe's. Then if your DD really wants to keep the wether he could be Chesnut's buddy to keep him happy as well.

The others I would sell or trade for hay or other things you may need around your farm.

I agree with this a hundred percent. It won't be easy but you gotta do what you gotta do. Also, if hay is going to be a big problem this year and you are already having trouble making the ends meet, I would not keep the pony either.

[SilverFlame819]

I'm surprised I'm the first one to say this, but... if the horse is only on loan to you, get rid of him. Horses eat WAY more than goats do so that would take a big chunk out of the feed bill (even if he is just a pony). If you already have plans for the wether to go in the freezer, put him there. If you're worried about the doeling being too small to make it worth your while to butcher, you could probably sell her instead, perhaps as a cute pet since she's still young and small... Wilfred you COULD breed back to his daughters, unless there is something here I'm missing (genetic issues? polled x polled?)... But he's really not necessary, so I'd sell him... That would put you down to your 5 does, the daughter's wether, and your 1 buck. Wether and the buck can be pasture pals so the buck isn't alone... Then if you're STILL having troubles feeding, I'd start selling the girls one by one until you feel you're at something manageable. I definitely wouldn't sell off a bunch of the girls first thing... They'd be last on my list to go.

[CaliannG]

I agree with Oat and Silver, the pony would be the first to go. Horses and ponies are luxury animals that one has when one happens to have extra pasture or extra money.

Then, if your daughter would put up a BIG fuss, I'd keep Chestnut and your daughter's wether...and sell off everything one at a time, starting with the males and then going on to the females, until you have accumulated enough money/hay to keep whatever you have left in feed for the winter.

Imported alfalfa pellets may be expensive, but they are easier to store and a lot easier to keep under lock and key than large bales of hay. Keep that in mind when deciding on how to get your roughage for the winter.

Another thing to think about if it gets VERY bad is storing, in your hayloft, piles of your neighbor's leaves that they have raked up. Goats are browsers, rather than grazers, and I know mine go nuts in the winter over a new-found pile of dead, brown leaves. It might not be the best of roughage feed, but they will eat it and it will nourish them.

~grinz~ And thieves won't think to steal piles of leaves.

[Helena]

I am in the same situation as you. I have 4 milking does, 3 doe kids, 3 buck kids, 1 year old buck and our older buck..8 years old. I realize that I am a "city girl" at heart and everything becomes a pet to me...but I really hate to send them to the animal sale. I wanted to put the bucks into the freezer but that is up to my husband . We use to have goat meat when the children were home but not in many years. wanted to at least use them for our dog food...I know the 3 small bucks and one older buck must go. I did't know that a 160 # buck could "fly" over a wooden fence to get to the does...I know electric fencing does no good...when love is in the air...So...off to the auction or freezer...tried placing ads for selling them..but no luck. I wish both of us good luck.

[hoggie]

Thank you all so much - this is only a quick reply and will come back to answer other points (have to get to the barn to feed the animals LOL)

I supplement their feed with alfalfa pellets at the moment, but haven't yet figured out how many pellets they would need a day if that was their sole source of roughage - it seems like quite a lot? But maybe I am wrong? Does anyon ehere do that, and if so, what weight of pellets do allow per day per goat? Thanks

The pony probably IS going back - we have two. Billy, who is my daughters pony now, I have had him for over 20 years, and of all the animals on the place he would be the last to leave. Heis as much one of the family as I am, and is genuinely very very easy to keep and have around - he tethers which means I can use little bits of grazing, he browses with the goats if the chance comes, he will share his stable with ANYONE I need to shove in at any time, and in bad weather is quite happy to just wander around the yard to stretch his legs, beg DD for rabbit food and generally act like a rather large dog LOL. The other pony Frosty, I got on loan this year so that I could ride with DD, and he IS a luxury (that I can't even ride at the moment because I have hurt my shoulder) and is almost certainly going back to his owners. I have made the decision about 5 times, but someohw can't quite make myself do oit - I guess I just have to be tough with myself and wet DD a good example huh?

Thanks again

will be back again to answer some other points

hoggie

[hoggie]

OLF and co.- I am interested in why you say only the two does, and not their sister?

KSALguy - the only pasture I can get access to with them I would need to tether them - that is quite labour intensive for so many - and although I can tether some and trust the others to stay close, obviously that become less effective the more I leave loose (If that makes any sense)

I could take them for walks - I had wondered about that as I used to do it when I only had the original two nannies. Originally I started with three totally unrelated does (different breeds). Chestnut was the son of one of them (she came already pregnant). He was one of twins, the other of which was stillborn. Second yer she didn't kid, third she kidded a very weak kid which died. I am guessing this was a management problem on my part this year as I had another kid and the doe die too Second doe has never come in kid at all for me - she came into milk as a maiden yearling, and the buck is obsessed with her, but she never catches. The third doe (the one that died this spring) was the mother of my other three does, she had triplets the first year, twins the second year, and just the one this yera but had a really difficult birth and ended up losing mum and kid to complications. So my two "good" does and the unkown are all full sisters.

Hope all that makes sense LOL

Silverflame - like I say, you are right, Frosty should go - I just have to take a big enough deep breath to get him packed up and put on the boat

Caliann - you are quite right about the storage of the alfalfa pellets, and it is something I hadn't considered.

And I like the tip about the leaves - I have been cutting big branches for them to have the leaves off before all the leaves drop for the winter, but I hadn't thought about storing the leaves LOL. They are like locusts when I give them branches, you've never seen leaves disappear so fast

Helena, good luck, I hope you manage to get yours sorted too

hoggie

[KSALguy]

it sounds like most of your does are not produceing at all and are more a liability? if they are not breeding and producing kids and milk for you they are not earning their keep, i would cull them out as well and keep the ones that CAN produce,

i used to take my whole herd of 35+ goats on walks accrost the big huge pasture next to us any time i had free time, they would follow and snack here and there along the way but when i stopped they would fan out and go to town eating what ever looked good, i would take them thru trees and brush and new green grass, then i would start walking again and they would all jump up and follow again, goats are pretty easy to do that with it seams,

[CaliannG]

hoggie...I free feed alfalfa pellets here. You will find most of us on the other side of the pond try to free feed roughage, either hay or pellets.

I can put a bale of alfalfa hay in the hay feeder, and it will last about 3 days for 5 goats, with most of it strewn around on the ground. A bale of alfalfa here is about 50 lbs.

A 50 lb bag of alfalfa pellets, put into the feeder, will last the same 5 goats 7+ days. I will find a few pellets on the ground, but not all that much.

The cheapest I can get a bale of alfalfa here right now is $10 for a square bale. The pellets are running $8.65 at the local Co-op. So, MUCH less waste, a bit cheaper, etc., tells me they get pellets.

Now, truthfully, my goats have 8 acres of weeds, browse, etc., to munch on....but just as truthfully, they seldom get off their lazy butts to go eat all of that as long as they have pellets available. Unless some of the fruits trees have dropped damaged fruit, which they will happily munch upon.