Test results are in...now what?

[1_goat_2_many]

Finally got my test results from bio tracking today. Good news and bad news. My nubian buck and 2 lamancha does are CAE negative. But my nubian doe that was supposed to be bred came back open AND cae positive. Now, i could just breed her to my buck and pull the kids but is that really worth it? She is already proven in the show ring and is a nice doe, though not the friendliest. Can she be in with the other does or does she need to be separated? She's been with them since i got her in august. Also, the does are penned right next to my buck and this doe has never shown interest in the buck or evidence of coming into heat which is why i thought she was bred. Both the la manchas let me know when they are in heat.

I guess what i really need are your opinions on keeping a CAE positive doe. This is my first year with dairy goats. We never worried about it with the boers.

This is the positive doe.

And my buck....

And the la manchas just because they like everyone to see how pretty they are.

[copperpennykids]

Everyone has to make their own choices...

With that said, if this was my goat, and I just had to have her genetics, then she would live in a separate pen. She would be milked last and the milk would either go for house use or to the pigs/chickens. I wouldn't even pasteurize it for kids (one little mistake, especially for newbies, and kids are positive too). Separate milk stand etc.

You would need to be RIGHT THERE when she kidded, so you could pull kids and separate from her immediately.

And if you did all of that, successfully, would seriously consider moving her along. Some say butcher, although some CAE does are asymptomatic their entire lives, so no harm in letting her be a family milker, but be very honest with folks so they understand the ramifications of owning such a doe (look at the extra work for you!)

If she is not worth all of the time/trouble/risk to the rest of your herd, then no, I wouldn't keep her.

BTW, this is still important to Boer goats as a CAE positive animal generally has less milk and a shorter life span than a goat without CAE... all of which affects the bottom line of a working Boer or Dairy herd.

YMMV

And sorry to hear she showed up positive.

[farmerjohn]

And such a pretty one too. Nice looking goats. Maybe re-homing her with a family who wants only one and maybe a wether with her?

[Alice In TX/MO]

I understand your frustration. I would put her down, but that's me.

[Tallabred]

I would retest her before I made a decision.

[copperpennykids]

Originally Posted by Tallabred

I would retest her before I made a decision.

Great point - always retest before making a decision. Biotracking will give you guidelines on when to pull blood again. I know WSU doesn't charge for a retest on a positive animal, not sure about Biotracking. Keep her isolated/quarantined until you get the 2nd test results back.... This will also give you a chance to weigh your options.

[susanne]

unfortunately the positive doe already has swollen knees. a symptomatic doe will not be very productive and when you freshening her, her udder will be huge, rock hard with no milk and very painful for the doe. is this what you want for her???

[Cheribelle]

Yeah, I thought it looked in the picture like her knees are swollen.

[Minelson]

I'm so sorry...she is very pretty

[1_goat_2_many]

Her knee swelled up like that when she got hurt. We had a lot of rain and there were some sink holes in the pasture and she got her leg caught in one. Its been like that since then.

[susanne]

for me both knees look enlarged, one a bit more then the other.
stressful situations like bad weather can bring symptoms up. i don't know how old she is or what your feeding program is, if i look at her, she appears not to have a lot of body capacity. very typical sign for this disease as animals don't walk as much.
if you have doubt that this is cae (have you talked to the previous owner? )
have her tested again at WSU.
you can also have the vet draw the fluid from her knee and have it tested (pricey)

[1_goat_2_many]

That pic was from when i first got her in august. She has filled out some since them but not much. She will be 2 in February. It does kind of look like both her knees are swollen in the pic. Doesnt really look like it in real life but i guess it could be. All of them are eating Showmaster Developer plus BOSS and free choice minerals.

I dont doubt it's CAE. Not positive on exactly how the test works, but it said anything over 40% is positive. She came up 91%. Does that make a difference in the intensity of the disease?

[myrtlelane]

If She had a 91, that is pretty intense. some of the Symptons of CAE Positive are Swollen knees, small or slow growth, have trouble getting PG or carring to full term, miscariages, not long lived or just a carrier for a very long time. I'm sure I am missing some here, but to me it is pretty serious and I would take her to the closest auction and the sooner the better. The rest of the herd should be tested again in 6 months from the information we have been given.

[Creamers]

I would retest because they can make errors in handling, and I have known of it to happen with biotracking in a friend's doe.

for me both knees look enlarged, one a bit more then the other.

Yes, the knees look terribly swollen - one more than the other, but both look large. I would take another photo of her and post it. . .but mainly, retest.

I would not breed her if she comes back positive since the knees and the fact she is open when she was supposed to be bred all make me think, like Susan said, she would freshen with a hard udder and you'd regret it. Very sad

[luvzmybabz]

Originally Posted by susanne

unfortunately the positive doe already has swollen knees. a symptomatic doe will not be very productive and when you freshening her, her udder will be huge, rock hard with no milk and very painful for the doe. is this what you want for her???

I will have to own my disagree. The picture does look like this doe has progressed to the swollen joint stage. However I in the past had 2 does that were completely nonsymptomatic that were positive one was a 4 year old 1 1/2 gallon a day milker at least 75% nubian, while the 100% nubian FF was between 3/4 and 1 gallon a day. The FF did have a harder udder in the begining and I was about to make the decision to put her down but was talked into using DMSO mixed gel that we mixed ourselves within 2 days we saw the difference and the general attitude to the numerous people I spoke with this about was it was edema from freshing with that much milk as a FF, as after the treatments and her udder softened where in a CAE + that is highly symptomatic there would be little to no softening. While it is true that you must be there during birth, I did not even let dam get a lick in I sat between the head and the business end caught babies and passed them off. It is a chore keeping CAE + as your entire routine must be dome twice and like mentioned CAE- first the CAE+ sperate milking pails, stand, hoof trimmers, everything, I would not even go near the CAE- pen after dealing with the CAE+ until I have showered and changed clothes and that is the reasonthey went on to become family milkers ( with notice and informatiom about caring for CAE+ goats).

On the issue of retesting if a 91 I would say the only way it could be negative is by mishandling by humans, there are times that you may get a borderline due to recent illness or vaccines. But a 91 is very high titers.

[Creamers]

Yes, it could only be from mishandling. If the blood was tested correctly and she had a 91 titer, she is positive. period.

However, I've personally known Biotracking to test two does positive with titers in the 80's that ended up being neg. when blood was redrawn and tested twice more, so it is good to redraw and retest to be sure.

[1_goat_2_many]

The sample did sit for a whole week as the post office sent the box to the wrong address. So the test was run 10 days after it was drawn. I will have her retested as soon as i can. Also, she was with the buck for about 2 weeks in the middle of july and they never saw the buck breed her. They didnt even know if she had a heat cycle while she was with him. She came in heat yesterday...a real strong heat. Driving my buck crazy through the fence. She is definitely not stunted or slow growing. She weighs about 120 lbs and looks about average height for a nubi.

[susanne]

Originally Posted by Creamers

Yes, it could only be from mishandling. If the blood was tested correctly and she had a 91 titer, she is positive. period.

However, I've personally known Biotracking to test two does positive with titers in the 80's that ended up being neg. when blood was redrawn and tested twice more, so it is good to redraw and retest to be sure.

i made the very same experience with animals of my own.
retest with wsu is absolutely necessary before making a decision.
a doe test positive that already shows symptoms and not raised on my farm....... different story

[susanne]

Originally Posted by 1_goat_2_many

The sample did sit for a whole week as the post office sent the box to the wrong address. So the test was run 10 days after it was drawn. I will have her retested as soon as i can.

would love to hear next numbers if result comes back.
in the mean time, i would recommend you to talk to the breeder and find out about health status of the herd she came from.

[Alice In TX/MO]

That was my question, too. If you've only had her a month, shouldn't the person you got her from refund your purchase price and take her back?