we want more milk.

pygmybabies · #1 09/17/10, 01:39 PM

So most of you know what I have. But just in case I will remind you.

over 1 1/2 yr old pygmy/nigerian doe..never kidded
over 1 1/2 ye old alpine/nubian kidded in April with twins. We also have the doeling she is 5 months old. And still nurses from time to time, I milk the momma. But am only getting about a cup to 2 cups a day now. She was/is obviously in heat and stood for my nigerian/pygmy buck, but dont know if anything happened he is just a little small still, only 7 months old.
then i have a 7 month old pygmy doeling a
6 month old pygmy/nigerian mix ( too small I dont want to breed her at this time)
a 9 month old nubian

we also have boer doeling, but I wasnt planning on milking her.

With these do you think i will have enough to get a qt or two of milk a day? or more? should I look into some more dairy goats? I wasnt interested in selling but someone tasted the alpine/nubians milk and said better than what she was getting and wants some as soon as possible, I dont even have enough for us to drink right now. I got plenty of room for more goats, as I have about 13-14 acres of pasture, and my 11 now dont even come close to getting it all. There is so much brush around the edges, they will never get it all.

Advice please

Alice In TX/MO · #2 09/17/10, 01:58 PM

I think you need to move out of the pygmies and into goats that make milk.

My Mini-Mancha makes close to two quarts per day.

CarolynRenee · #3 09/17/10, 02:15 PM

I would "think" that the Alpine / Nubian and the 9mo Nubina (if you bred her for next year) would provide you with enough milk. Of course, so much depends on if you have the kids still nursing & if you milk 1 or 2 times a day. I'm definately no goat expert, and can only attest to what I have now.

I have a purebred Saanen who gives me about 6+ cups a day and a Saanen / Nigerian that gives me 3 cups a day (I only milk 1x a day, kids on dams during day, kids locked up at night).

As much as I like my mini-Saanen (the saanen / nigerian mix), I REALLY like my full Saanen for milk quantity. If you were thinking of selling, I'd suggest going for a full sized breed. You would need fewer animals for more milk.

Jay27 · #4 09/17/10, 02:20 PM

Is it possible that the doeling is nursing more than you think? I'd separate them completely and see what I get.

**mygoat** · #5 09/17/10, 02:53 PM

If I recall, your 9 month nubian doe was rather small and may not be breeding this year, if ever? I remember you saved her from a bad situation and she was really stunted.

Honestly, if you want more milk, I'd get more dairies. I just remember you saying you had a limit of goats that you've already exceeded. In which case, I'd suggest selling/butchering until you had a smaller number.

Pygmies are cute if you want them JUST as pets but they're not that economical to raise unless you're doing top of the line show pygmies which will go for 200+ each... Then again, I don't ever hear of people in the market for 200.00 pygmies, so I imagine they're hard to sell.

I have miniatures (mostly pygmy mutts, essentially) that I raise as pets and the extra wethers go for meat. My small numbers make it easy for me to sell out of doelings on the bottle. I don't try to sell wethers, as I just toss 'em out on pasture and butcher them once they're big enough.

CaliannG · #6 09/17/10, 04:15 PM

I'd lock the doeling away from your Alpine/Nubian cross and see how much you get in the morning.

That is seriousness. My ND doe will STILL let her buck-son nurse, and he's bigger than *she* is now. And, completely truthfully, if I did NOT lock one away from the other, I'd never get more than half a cup per milking.

I'll bet that you find that if that doeling is not able to nurse, your Alpine cross will give you a LOT more milk.

I rather agree with mygoats, also. Pygmies are considered a meat breed, not a dairy breed. There is no reason to cross a Pygmy into a dairy breed if you can cross a Nigerian instead, since Nigerians have been bred for higher milk production.

I would sell everything in your herd with the word "Pygmy" in the breed name, either full or cross, and use the money you make to buy a standard sized or mini sized bred doe. I would probably go with a Nubian or an Alpine. That way, if you get a buckling out of her, you can use that buckling to breed your Alpine cross and your Nubian next year (given an extra year to grow and get healthy, your 9 month Nubian should be ready to breed by then).

pygmybabies · #7 09/17/10, 05:16 PM

I did seperate the doeling the other night and the amount of milk didnt change, I read that it can go down when she is in heat. If that is true, when will it go back up.

So if I was to breed her the alpine/nubian with the pygmy/nigerian cross then I could uses bucklings for meat and doelings to raise or sell? Until I change my buck. My little buckling is beautiful to me, and I want to keep him. If I kept the two full pygmies at what age would I butcher the babies and would you get much meat out of those?

I maybe could get a mini saanen that has been bred to a nigerian to kid in Jan/Feb from wintrrwolf, how would that be for milk? Thinking about buying her.

LoneStrChic23 · #8 09/17/10, 06:29 PM

Pygmies don't sell well in my area. I always see pygmy and pygmy crosses for sale from $10-$35 a pop. One lady had registered pygmies she couldn't sell (2 does & a buck, all disbudded) and she ended up giving them to my aunt just to get rid of them.
Many people around here use them for BBQ goats, they're small, but most are meaty for their size. In May you'll see lots pygmy whethers for sale as BBQ goats, though most in this area prefer young, larger meat goats like Boers..

Nigerians, even unregistered average at least $100 a pop for does.

If I were you, I'd thin out the pygmies as best as possible, only keeping those near & dear to you.

The mini-Saanan/Nigerian cross should turn out to be a great milk goat for you. I'm getting mini-alpines. The doe my breeder uses as a milk goat gives her an average of 3 gallons per week, she's at the lower end of her production and that is with milking her no more than once a day as the breeder can't make use of lots of milk.

Good luck to you.

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

pygmybabies · #9 09/17/10, 06:57 PM

I am kinda attached to my little pets right now. But the babies they produce could be BBQ. The only thing is she wont kid until jan/feb and the babies wont kid for another year after that. But I guess thats the game is looking ahead to the future.

Alice In TX/MO · #10 09/17/10, 07:23 PM

The Mini-Saanen / Nigerian kids would be barbecue. That's too much smallness!

We're into this three years, or four, I lose track. This is the first year that I've been able to reconcile myself to the fact that some breedings are just for milk, and the kids either need to go away quickly (bottle kids for someone else or dog food) or become cabrito at weaning.

CarolynRenee · #11 09/17/10, 07:59 PM

I've bred my 100% Saanen to a 100% Nigerian two years in a row now. All her offspring , which I will call the mini-Saanen, have been white & look pretty much like a 1/2 sized Saanen.

The mini-Saanen doe was bred back to another 100% Nigerian last year. HER offspring looked more Nigerian, was black with white hat & socks & was pretty tiny.

I'm not totally sure, but I think that once you get the first generation mini-saanen, the kids from that mini-saanen lose the Saanen look......not sure about the milk production though. Will find out next year when I breed the 2nd generation mini-saanen.

LoneStrChic23 · #12 09/17/10, 08:34 PM

I think I read the post wrong. Are you considering buying the mini saanen doe that is bred to the Nigerian or are you planning on buying a doe kid from this cross if there is a kid?

Alice:
If she was considering buying a mini saanen/nigerian cross why would that be bad for milking? I know it would be small, but wouldn't it still be a dairy mix and better to milk than a pygmy? Also, out of curiosity, would a mini saanen/Nigerian cross still be consider a "mini Saanen", just a 1st generation since one of the parents is a pure bred (Nigerian)? Or do they only go back to 1st generation mini if one of the parents is the pure bred namesake (in this case a Saanen.) ? Hope that question made sense, lol.

Pygmybabies: Sorry for the slight thread high jack there, my curiosity got the better of me.Hope you figure out a solution that will provide your family with more milk, while still letting you keep a few pets too. How many pygmies do you have that are pets?

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

KSALguy · #13 09/17/10, 08:52 PM

a dairy doe should produce more than a few cups, are you keeping the kids with her all the time?? keep the kids and the doeling away from her all night, milk her out in the morning, if you milk her all the way out you should have a good amount, if not she isnt really a good milk doe, and you should get a differint one,

Alice In TX/MO · #14 09/17/10, 09:28 PM

The reasons not to keep breeding to Nigerian Dwarf bucks:

1. tiny teats
2. short stature meaning you don't have much room for a milk bucket/cup/pan?
3. lack of a market for kids
4. they may keep getting smaller with each generation

I have Mini-Manchas. What the Mini-Mancha breeders have discovered is that breeding Mini to Mini keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller kids with each generation. I've got the offspring of a third generation MM bred to another MM. The kids are too small to be useful as dairy goats. This year, I'm breeding UP to a 3/4 LaMancha and 1/4 Mini Mancha buck.

I know of other Mini-Mancha breeders who are breeding their does to full size LaManchas this fall. They are selecting bucks that don't sire huge kids, of course.

If you need more milk, get a goat that makes more, and keep an eye on the next generation. Small is not better when it's over done.

wintrrwolf · #15 09/17/10, 10:02 PM

heh my plan was not to breed my mini saanen doe crystal to amron my ND buck but to my mini saanen buck Legend. Unfortunately Crystal had other idea's and I still don't know how she got out of Legend's pen (sigh) anywho- if you breed an F1 -first gen mini saanen to a 100% Saanen or ND then the offspring is still considered an F1, you have to breed f1 to f1 to get f2 and so on if at any time you breed to a 100% then you end up back at square one. Crystal should give a good supply of milk her mother milked quantity. If I were to sell Crystal it would only be to PB since I really don't want to sell her at all. Seems though that all my goats are on the larger size of the spectrum even my Nigerians, and Inga's udder looks great can't wait until I can start milking her.
Since PB has use of a hand pump milker with the smaller teet cup I think milking smaller teets aren't going to be an issue. OH if you are wanting milk to hold over until Lulu-Molly starts to produce more I do have some in the freezer and vet said Sugar's milk will be safe again in a week

Patience little grasshopper...
though Gypsy the Kinder is the one due Jan/Feb, Crystal will be Feb according to seeing the deed done and dates on calendar.
hmmm ya think Tito got em all? Cause I have a good size nigerian buck over here

steff bugielski · #16 09/18/10, 05:10 AM

What are you feeding and how much?
If they are just on pasture you will not get much milk. They need to eat extra protein to produce more milk.
You would have had to separate the doe from her kid at least at night at around 2-3 weeks of age and then the doe would produce for you and the kid. It might be too late this year.

LoneStrChic23 · #17 09/18/10, 06:27 AM

Thanks for the explanation Alice

Before I went out and visited my breeder I was considering ND's. She had ND, full sized Alpines and the minis so I'm happy I got to compare all of them. For me, the ND was just *too* small.

On the mini to mini breedings...are you referring just to breeding back to Nigerians or also breeding of say MM to MM producing tinier & tinier kids? Are they just tiny at birth with potential to reach their dams size, or do they, in general stay smaller? Both of my mini does are bred to mini bucks (one 1st gen & 1 3rd gen) so I hope I get kids similar in stature to their mothers since I was hoping to keep one doe kid, and I don't want to keep one if it's the size of a Nigerian...

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

Alice In TX/MO · #18 09/18/10, 08:20 AM

What we are seeing is that successive breeding of MM to MM has the potential to result in smaller kids. On mine, it was the breeding of a generation three Mini-Mancha doe to a generation four Mini-Mancha buck. The resulting kids are smaller than what I want. (They may be perfect for someone else, however.)

With dairy goats, it's about teats and udders and milkability. As mentioned above, if there's no room for a milk bucket and the teats are too small to be milked easily, you need to ponder the next breeding *very* carefully. Select a sire that will make the next generation better, unless you a planning to barbecue *all* the offspring.

Unfortunately, you can't milk "cute."

pygmybabies · #19 09/18/10, 11:12 AM

Well I am feeding her hay free choice, pasture during the day, then on the milk stand, my mix of grain, oats, boss, beet pulb and a little sweet feed (as that was what she was having at the other place) She will NOT eat the alfalfa pellets, I have tried 2 different kinds. I am supposed to go look at some different alfalfa hay today, to see if it is any good. When I got her she was nursing two babies and we took one with us. So we couldnt have seperated them as we didnt own her. I will start rethinking where I want to go with my goats, I do want meat and milk so I just need to think about it some more. Thanks

CaliannG · #20 09/18/10, 11:13 AM

Ahhh, I think I may see the issue!

PB, you are using a hand milker. Are you finishing out the milking by hand or do you stop milking when the hand milker stops giving a decent stream?

I have ALWAYS had to finish out milking by hand when using a hand milker, if I wanted to empty the udder. To me, an empty udder looks like a deflated balloon.

If you don't empty the udder, it can hurt your milk production as the doe's body thinks that since less is being taken, less needs to be made.