best LG for Cougars

Cannon_Farms · #1 09/11/10, 06:33 AM

Ok, so i dont have much faith in my Llama after he ran and hid from the calf we brought home not to long ago

A friend of mine who has a woodsman type tv show that is on cable was filming not to far from my home and he spotted a cougar and even was able to get a picture of the cat.
Im trying to chose between a mule or a donkey, Im very uneasy when it comes to dogs after my good ol boy suddenly killed 2gs worth of goats this year, but I know that can happen with any lg

farmmom · #2 09/11/10, 06:36 AM

Whatever you choose, I'd probably get more than one if they're going to be handling predators of that size! Preferably ones that have been raised with goats by their mothers to protect them.

Bearfootfarm · #3 09/11/10, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Im trying to chose between a mule or a donkey

Those are both "prey" animals
You need a DOG to keep cats away

Get a TRUE LGD breed from WORKING parents, and spend a little time training it, and you shouldn't have problems with any predators

http://www.lgd.org/

Cyngbaeld · #4 09/11/10, 07:59 AM

Cougars will eat donkeys, llamas, mules, horses and goats.

I have 3 Great Pyrs with my livestock. They might not be able to fight off a cougar, but they would sure let me know something big and bad was out there. Then I could shoot it.

PotBellyPigs · #5 09/11/10, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyngbaeld

Cougars will eat donkeys, llamas, mules, horses and goats.

I have 3 Great Pyrs with my livestock. They might not be able to fight off a cougar, but they would sure let me know something big and bad was out there. Then I could shoot it.

I agree with that!
A high powered rifle works wonders on any predatory animal.

Cannon_Farms · #6 09/11/10, 08:27 AM

My great pry was good until he decided to kill 2 grand worth of goats, he started off with chickens, another dog is not going to come here at this moment as no one is going to get rid of a good working dog, and Im not doing a puppy. I know a donkey or mule will kill a cougar or coyote or make enough fuss that we can be alerted, we had a kennel for years so barking dogs dont exactly wake us up.
We have a nice gun collection Im not afraid to show off to any one or anything not welcome here, but in the stealth of the night...
We have just had a run in shed with no close off, thinking it might be a good idea to work on that today and make it into an official barn

Creamers · #7 09/11/10, 08:15 PM

A well trained LGD will not kill your goats and livestock. If you're willing to pay the price for a well trained LGD, you will likely never regret it.

I have personally known a group of well trained Maremmas to defend a herd of goats and mini horses from large black bears in PA. . . this was not from rousing the owners, either.

http://alpacastation.com/Maremma.htm

They come highly recommended to me, and I know some of their dogs personally through buyers, and they WORK. Their dogs are very expensive, but they are worth their weight in gold.

I have donkies and llamas. A cougar would attack mine without much trouble, and they would eat the llamas without a problem, but of course, there are exceptions to any rule. Mine are worthless for guarding against large predators. They work against some stray dogs okay, and that is it.

Cannon_Farms · #8 09/11/10, 09:53 PM

a donk or mule can make enough racket to alert. I can not spend 1500 on a dog right now, after my husbands heart attack 3 days before our insurance kicked in im lucky i get to keep my goats.
Ive never had a mule and didnt know if anyone had used them for a lg.

Creamers · #9 09/12/10, 12:30 AM

I haven't heard of anyone using a mule. I am just not sure.

I personally do not have the cash to pay that for a dog either, but I do not live in an area where
I risk loosing the goats to large predators. I would probably try to find a way if I did to get a well trained LGD, but
I am grateful since it would be a hard thing to pay for, that I do not find myself with that problem.

I have a Great Pyr. Sweet dog. . .she was free and a rescue. She doesn't kill anything. She has a fierce bark and patrols the farm and the ones next door, too.
I don't know if she'd really protect the goats. . .she seems to think she is protecting the farm. I wouldn't say she is worth a great for guarding the livestock in general.

Pops2 · #10 09/12/10, 02:03 AM

can't say for GA, but out west mt lions kill & eat horses, mules, donkeys, elk, moose, cattle & even LGDs if they can catch them alone & careless.

jordan · #11 09/12/10, 02:19 AM

I don't think this is the case here, but it always amazes me that people will invest thousands and thousands of dollars in their goats and then try to find the cheapest dogs they can get to guard them

Depending on your set-up, an LGD can be just as effective roaming the farm as he is living 24/7 in the pasture with the kivestock. I'll reiterate, depending on your set-up.
I have a couple of young dogs that aren't any good with the goats just yet (can't be trusted with young ones), but they are great on the perimeters!
My recommendation would be to put that money towards a good dog and don't waste it on food for the cougar (which is what a donkey is). It seems that there are 3 stories of donkeys killing goats for every one about a dog...
Lois

Cannon_Farms · #12 09/12/10, 08:21 AM

cash money in my herd is 400, herd value, well lets just say I couldnt afford them, ive traded, got lucky and worked deals.
My donkey I had never killed any of my goats but I sold him with my boers and regretted it ever sense.
My lgd didnt even kill out of malice but i think was trying to put them where he wanted them, then again he also brought a neighbors calf up and the guy i gave the dog to hes brought two fawns up to the house and ate them. Dog was fine till he hit almost 2. I paid a fair amount of money for this dog and it seemed to be a good investment but whos to say I wont take another hit like that with another dog? I hear more about the lgds killing other livestock or caring less about the livestock than protecting it. Its a grand thing when they do but those dogs are about priceless

There are no real matches for a real hungry lion

wintrrwolf · #13 09/12/10, 08:55 AM

I got lucky with my AnaPyr (so far) she is good at patrolling and barking, so is my aussie. Haven't had any chicken or goat losses to either dogs or predator's, but I am ALWAYS watching them. Unfortunately my AnaPyr is locked up due to heat cycle and the fact that my neighbors let their dogs run loose one is a lab and the other is a bloodhound neither of which I want to breed to my AnaPyr...
Pretty much the predators around here are coyotes, bobcats, fox, raccoons, and loose dogs.
With a cougar well that is harsh my friend lost a colt to one few years back and it couldn't have been easy with the mare right there but it did it and drug the carcass bout 1/2 a mile away. Nothing will stop a determined cougar ...if you are set against a dog then a donkey maybe the way to go, same friend got a donkey and he does make allot of racket, she doesn't keep him with the goats though she has a pen set up near them for Humberto.
Oh dont know about your area but around here a donkey is a minimum of 200 intact or gelded with females being 300 and up...

Cannon_Farms · #14 09/12/10, 10:01 AM

an unknown one at the sale can go for 25 bucks, i paid 50 for my last one as a jack, now they can go up in price but i dont buy when the grass is green if you know what i mean

Creamers · #15 09/12/10, 11:36 AM

Quote:

There are no real matches for a real hungry lion

A pair of 200lb LGD will usually have no problem defending a herd of goats from a 120 lb cougar.
Donkeys - at least mine - will try to kill goats, if it suits them. I do not keep them with the goats. In time, they might get used to them . . . lol. I hope!

At the end of the day, Donkeys and llamas are prey animals only. The fact they can occassional get the best of a predator or freak out a predator. . .doesn't mean a whole lot. However, I do think if you find a good donkey that you're sure will not treat the goats as something to attack, it is far better to have one than nothing at all.

I just speak from experience - I have went through llamas and donkeys and see others do the same, but I also know people who have had untrained or young LGD, too - and they have also had their issues.

A llama or donkey or mule is better than nothing at all.

Cannon_Farms · #16 09/12/10, 12:59 PM

maybe fainting goats have a purpose here, sad one though

Creamers · #17 09/12/10, 02:17 PM

Quote:

maybe fainting goats have a purpose here, sad one though

LOL - I hate to laugh, but shew - that is pretty funny.

You might do better with a LARGE draft horse - if you have the room -usually gentle with everything, but the sheer size might deter the cougars, and if they are the only equine, if they are like horses I've had in the past, they might stick with the goats. Just a thought. A 2,000 lb draft horse looks more forboding than any 600 donkey or 400 llama, and I've just found horses to be safe - by and large - around goats. I know there are exceptions. . .with anything though.

Cannon_Farms · #18 09/12/10, 03:27 PM

I have less than an acre for the goats, so no, no draft horses here, im over the horse thing period ive got a 32 year old that im waiting to kick the bucket

DQ · #19 09/12/10, 03:36 PM

if you have less than an acre I would just string up some really hot, well grounded wire. a cougar isn't going to kill and eat on the spot. its wants to drag it over the fence and off to a safe place. if you make going over the fence a very unpleasant experience I think you will have safe goats.

Creamers · #20 09/12/10, 03:50 PM

Oh! Well, on that little land and having goats and a horse already, I'd say option for additonal animals - ie donkeys, dogs, etc would be really limited and agree with DQ- So strangs of hot, well grounded wire on the outside - top and bottom will be your cheapest and best bet.