Brainstorming, need opinions/advice please.

[LoneStrChic23]

First of all, I'd like to know who on earth started the lil myth about goats being a simple animal that requires little work & can eat anything?? I've been researching like crazy & goats don't seem as simple as many say....

Anywho, I have a few questions (again). 1st is, do you think it's possible to properly keep 3-5 goats on 1.4 fenced acres? That's the goat space I have. Were wanting goats primarily for milk for a family of 4, with an occasional whether to put in the freezer (I know a dairy breed wouldn't be as ideal as a meat breed, but I don't see why dairy whethers couldn't be for meat). The browse/grazing on my property is so-so, so I am aware that good hay & minerals will have to be provided free choice at all times (I've found a good source for sudan, coastal & alfalfa hay).

I can't make up my mind on a breed, which is driving me nuts & my head spins at all the options. LOL I like the idea of the mini dairy goats as they seem to fall in the middle of the road on size (I don't want tiny, tiny goats, nor do I want a group of giants either)

I have a husband who swears all goat milk is bitter & has a horrible texture (he also will not drink store bought milk as he got spoiled drinking fresh cows milk on a dairy he worked at) so I'm wanting to find a breed known for good tasting drinking milk so maybe with proper feed, management on my part & good milk handling practices I can get him to rethink his broad negative opinion on goat's milk.

My thoughts right now were leaning to getting a variety since I can't make up my mind. I loved the lil mini alpine picture that Alice in TX posted and that breed goes on the top of my list. So at least 1 mini alpine....Then I was thinking I could get 1 nubian doe, and maybe an alpine (or just 2 of the mini versions) and for a buck I could get a nigerian dwarf so he could breed to everything I've got. My mom thinks its silly to buy a mix, but I don't have plans to show and I am honestly very torn between the breeds, lol I'd love to have mini nubians, but haven't found any in my area. I know I could broaden my options by looking to breeders out of state, but I'd prefer finding a breeder close to me so they can help advise me on parasite prevention & such for this area.

Next question is about breeders. I want to only buy from CAE & CL free herds. I'm leary of taking someone's word for it & would like proof....would breeders consider it rude if I asked for proof that the herd was tested & free of CAE? I don't want to step on toes, but I also want to get started on a good foot as well.

Next question is on breeding/housing. I haven't found much as far as goat dairies go in my area, so though I'd rather not have a buck, I also don't want to stress or worry about travel to get my does bred to a clean buck...which is why I was considering a ND buck as he'd be small, less food & easier to handle. Ideally I'd like to buy a gentle doe from a breeder already bred & then go with what is available on the rest (kids or adults).

We have a nice corral (60ft x 40ft) and metal barn (8ft x 20ft) on one corner of the property that we plan to use for the does/babies and are working on a separate pen and shelter in the opposite corner as a buck pen (though I think if we have a buck we'll need to at least put a whether with him for company) this pen is 40ft x 20ft. Our plan was to provide free choice hay and just alternate letting the does/babies have run of the property, then letting the buck/whether have a turn. Would this work as long as I don't keep more than 5 adults at any given point?

I'm trying to get everything in order & am brainstorming right now & would appreciate any advice, comments, corrections ect. ect. We haven't talked to any breeders just yet as we still have 3 sides of the property to finish goat fencing & figured it would be rude to waste anyone's time when I probably won't be set up for at least 2-4 months. So since I haven't harassed anyone (other than this board ) I'd welcome input on breeds as well.

Sorry this is so long, thanks in advance!

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

[PotBellyPigs]

Get yourself some pure bred Saanen does for your land.
That is plenty acreage for 4-5 does.
Get yourself a Boer buck to breed to them.
You then will have the best of both worlds, milk&meat.
Any reputable breeder should not feel insulted to prove to you that the registered animals that you buy are genuine and disease free....
Your barn and coral will work o.k.
You can keep goats in VERY small spaces.
I know a fellow who has 10 goats, bucks and does in a 20' long by 10' wide square.
Of course, he has to feed them every day.
I, myself, have 1 buck(Kiko/Boer cross) and 3 does(2 Saanen and 1 Alpine) in a 50' long x 20' long paddock.
When they get the weeds ate out of there, I move them over to another enclosure...
I hope this helps.
Ps- milk tastes good IF you don't feed them ANYTHING strong flavored(onions, garlic, etc).

[wintrrwolf]

You have plenty of space! I have about 2 acres and a good chunk of that is a gully, chasm, culvert??
I started out with a Saanen, and got nigi's, Nubian, and mini Saanen too lol. Have a nigi buck and mini Saanen buck I kept back for breeding. Still have pasture overgrowing and pygmybabies says I need more goats LOL. Housing is very simple and yours sounds more then adequate.
You as the buyer have the right to request proof, you want to protect yourself and your herd so don't feel uncomfortable asking. Though you will find some look at you cross eyed and have no idea what CAE/CL or johnes is (unfortunately) you will have to decide if you are willing to risk it.

Fun fun and welcome aboard

[CaliannG]

As someone with a mixed herd, and not a single one of them registered, even *I* would not be offended if a buyer asked me, "Can I see your last test results?"

In fact, I would be more willing to sell to that person. At least they know enough to ASK about diseases and ASK for proof. That is the kind of person that I want taking my goats home.

Now, of course, if I was being dishonest and shifty, and telling people that my goats were tested when, in fact, they weren't, then I might be the kind of person to raise a fuss about it. But an HONEST breeder who really DOES test their herd regularly, is not going to be upset with you for asking to see the paperwork. If a breeder does get upset, I'd take that as a clue to hightail it out of there and not buy from them.

As for breeds....perhaps you should not set yourself on *specific* breeds. I mean, if you decide that you are going to have Saanens, would you *REALLY* turn down the absolutely gentle and easy-to-handle Alpine that someone has? Or the Nubian that isn't registered, but gives nearly 2 gallons a day? Or, perhaps, the completely grade, who-knows-what-she-is, doe that is 7 years old, but is so well trained and so tender that the owner's 5 year old habitually milks her?

What I would recommend is to go around to the folks that live nearby and have goats, and see what is around. After all, these people are likely about to start breeding. They may have a few goats that they want the bloodlines for in this breeding, but plan to sell them once they have kidded in spring. In that way, you might be able to get an idea of what will be available, and also a shoe-in of "Well, put ME down for her in spring!".

By visiting now, you can also get advice from people in your area on what fencing works for them, what soil problems they might have, what minerals work best, etc., etc. Forewarned is forearmed.

Hope this helps!

[mabeane]

I have Nigies and I will tell you their milk is comparable to Jersey cow milk. My daughter who has a lovely Nubian and Boer herd and make cheeses for sale says I am so fussy about taste. But I prefer to call myself a "milk connisseur." I have had cows and many different breed of goats over a 35 year span and the ND milk is over the top!

[Oat Bucket Farm]

You have more than enough room for what you want.

[LoneStrChic23]

Thanks so much for all the input! Very happy to know that I can make it work with the space I have.

I know having a boer buck would give me better meat babies, but meat is a secondary desire and a means to keep from being overrun in a bunch of boys, so I think I'd rather stick to a mini dairy buck or ND buck due to the smaller size. And if anything, boers are pretty common here so if I decide I want to do a breeding for meat I'm sure I can talk to someone about stud service and get the bigger babies, without having to house a large buck (that is of course if I get a large breed doe, obviously wouldn't breed a boer to a mini doe)..

CalianG- you make a good point that I didn't think of. I wouldn't mind one bit taking on an older "dairy mutt" as long as she's gentle, can produce and disease free. I will keep that in mind when I start talking to breeders. I think a bit of variety will suit us well....I have 2 children, ages 5 & 7 so I know that I'd like at least 1 mini for them to "learn on" so to speak. We had alpines when I was a kid (hence the appeal, I'm mainly drawn to them for purely sentimental reasons...& they're pretty!) and one was "mine" my mom taught me how to handle her and milk her when I was 6 yrs old and it's one of my fondest memories, so I'd like that for my kids as well, but think a mini doe would be easier for them.....

On the note of breeders, I'm happy to know that y'all think I wouldn't be coming across as rude or pushy by asking for proof of health testing. I kind of got duped when I started out with my rabbits, trusted too easily and assumed too much, only to learn a bit more later & realize my error. Now I'm having to reevaluate, cut back, make some changes and do some restarting.......Goats are more expensive than rabbits & I can't afford to throw away what I've been scraping up & working hard for on unhealthy stock. I don't have to have papers (though they'd be nice), nor do I have to have all pure breds, but I can't settle on stock that's ill tempered or unhealthy....

As far as local breeders, I'm afraid I'm out of luck. I've called people from local papers, CL & business cards/ads in various feed stores. Went & visited a few places & was disappointed. Two breeders that had nice looking goats told me CAE & CL were "made up terms" to scare people into only buying from show people or dairies. One had sad looking critters (hooves not maintained, rusty colored, brittle coats, some thin, some pot bellied) but since they were "registered" they wanted $250 a pop & were very annoyed with me looking over the goats & asking questions & finally after 15 minutes asked if I would pay with cash or check....I of course said "neither"

So, it looks like I'll have to branch out several hours from my area to look at goats & talk to people. I saw several people here on the board that are from Texas, so if no one would object I may send out a few emails/PM to see who/if anyone, has what coming up & go from there. Or, if any of y'all have older milking does you may need to place or a surplus of kids coming up & your in Texas, I'd welcome any and all emails/PMs with info on what you may have available. I'm kind of in the middle of Texas so all the bigger cities are 3-4 hrs away (the Dallas/ Fort Worth metroplex is 3-4 hrs east of me, Oddessa/Midland is 3-4 hrs west of me, Houston is about 6 hrs away)

I have been studying up on health/parasite prevention and thanks to this board & a bit of googling I *think* I've got most of the basics figured out. I've found where I can get various wormers, copper bolus, minerals, have feed/grains mixed for me.....the only things I see that I'm lacking is a place to get Bo-Se vaccines (vets looked at me like I lost my mind when I asked, said they only need CD/T vaccinations once a year) and I can't find anyone who will sell me antibiotics so if I run into an issue, I'll have to pay a vet visit...

Eventually I'll have all this sorted out I really appreciate all the input & advice. I know I'll have a learning curve no matter how much research I do, but I at least want to be as prepared as possible before I bring home anything

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

[Laverne]

Wow, I applaud you for planning and prepping and wanting to do goats right. Not just leaping into it blindly.
My opinion. Nubians are popular in Texas. Known for rich milk most everyone likes. I'd get registered stock so the doelings will sell good. Studying bloodlines that are popular and get the best that can be afforded. Nubians are a dual purpose breed. Meat and milk.
The American Dairy Goat Association has a breeders list.
I have La Manchas, they are laid back and quiet. Rich milk. Good for long lactations. My doe milks 7 lbs. a day at 15 mos. into her lactation. Do well in the heat.
I'd make sure the goats I got produced well in the Texas heat and humidity.
A good goat vet is hard to find. I don't have a vet yet but have done fine so far with over the counter stuff and am a stickler on prevention management since I don't have a vet. I am going to seriously look for one again. They don't sell pennicillin and Biomycin at the feed stores in Texas? Use Jeffers Livestock Supply online for antibiotics, vaccines, ect. Lysiginin for staph mastitis and Pasturella for pneumonia are necessities for prevention also. Selenium gel can be used also. I use Cargill Right Now Onyx, but there is another mineral in your area I can't get that is even better, can't think of the name of it. I love Horse Guard vitamins for my goats. They love it. It has organic selenium in it. helps me ration my Bo-se.

[LoneStrChic23]

Laverne,

1st of all, I feel a tad silly. Last vet I spoke to about antibiotics told me he couldn't/wouldn't sell them unless needed & the "need" would only be determined after an exam (and all the fees that entails..) He also told me the only ones I could buy OTC were the various fish antibiotic pills & that they weren't effective in goats like the injectables..Also gave me a long lecture about not using antibiotics without a vet exam due to all the risk/dangers....I blindly took his word for it on nothing being available OTC & left peeved. Called mom (she has coffee every morning with a gal that works at one of the local feed stores) & asked if they sell injectable penicillin and she says "Of course they do, you don't think farmers get an RX every time they need it do you??" :blush: Oy...Good thing, one less thing on my meds/prevention list I have to worry about

I like nubians & I've even seen a few local, but none that I'd put $ on & none that are health tested. I'm really open to a variety..the only things I'm "set" on is I'd like at least one mini dairy goat of some sort and would like at least 1 full sized doe..Nubian or Alpine are my 1st choices, with Saanans 3rd. Figure if I have both I can choose which one I like better and the kids can have their small goat (or if I end up adoring both varieties I can always just keep a mismatched group )

Thank you for mentioning registration as I didn't think of that. Though we want some goat meat for the freezer, I doubt we could use, and store meat from every kid that I don't keep...so having a resale value on surplus kids is something to consider..

I want goats NOW, lol and its sooo hard to be patient, but IMO this is a big investment & I'd hate to jump in 1/2 prepared, end up having to correct avoidable issues & toss my hard earned $ down the drain, so even though I don't want to, I'll have to wait a bit longer to ensure I'm set up.

Thanks again for the input, gave me even more info to ponder..lol

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

[Cannon_Farms]

look at goats in milk and ask for a taste test, different goats will have better or worse milk. Soy tends to give milk a funky flavor so goat chow is out as far as feeds, tried it once the dogs got the milk for two weeks.
I dont know where you are at in relation to Vicky from Lonestar Nubians on here but shes got some very nice goats and shes been there and done that to know just how to get the best and most milk, she sells paper goats and possibly you can pick up a cull goat reasonably that doesnt meet her standards but may be a perfect back yard milker. Might find out where in TX she is at

[PotBellyPigs]

Do you have any "animal swap meets" near you?
I've bought some goats at such places, and they were good animals.
Also, check your Craigslistings.
None of my goats are registered, yet, goat meat is in high demand, thus, you should be able to get your money back come slaughter time.....
My Saanen does are really gentle, loving, and fairly easy to handle, though they are BIG.....
My Kiko/Boer cross buck is just as loving and easy to handle.
I think this is so, because I DO spend time with them(other than just milking).
Whichever breed(s) you choose, I'm sure you will enjoy them!
TSC carries antibiotics, both oral and injection,for goats.

[LoneStrChic23]

First of all I want to thank y'all soooo much for the help, advice & opinions. Helped more than ya know

Also want to send a huge, mega thank you to "Alice in Tx" for the emails help and what led me to what I think is my first, quality dairy goat of my adult life!!!

Alice in Tx emailed me several links and in them I found a breeder just 2 hrs from me. I *was* originally going to wait until spring to get my goats but ya have to understand that I found EXACTLY what was my "ideal" and I can't pass her up. Not to mention the only reason I was waiting was so we could fence the field, but I think 2 small does should be comfy in a 60ft x 40ft area, at least temporarily...

I'm driving down this week to meet in person, see the goats for myself, go over health paper work, do some milk tasting and if all goes well I'll be putting my deposit down on two mini alpines!!! I seriously feel like its Christmas morning & I haven't even got them yet, lol. One doe is bred for the 1st time and due on December 11th and the breeder said I could bring the other doe back when she's ready for a breeding on my choice of her bucks

If all goes well, I'm doing my deposit this week and will pick them up in about 2-3 weeks so I can finish preparing. We still have 6 sheets left to put up on the barn and some work on the corral. My husband built me a 60ft x 40ft, 6 ft tall, insanely sturdy pipe corral and he's got to finish welding up the panels on two sides to have it goat proof, hence the wait.

If this week goes well, I get to go "Goat Stuff Shopping" and that should not make me happier than shoe shopping, but it does I need to find GOOD minerals, some feeders, hoof trimmers and.... LOL my mind spins, but I'm making a list of "Must have start up items" and prioritizing by what's needed now, and what I can gather along the way so if anyone wants to give me list of stuff, that would be fabulous! Oh and I'm so happy, that if I have any luck I might have my very own, born at my home babies before the new year How cool is that??

Anywho, my dear husband is looking at me like I've grown 2 heads and is possibly thinking I need medication of some sort, but I can't help it.. I'M EXCITED, so I thought I'd share with folks who understand

* I even have a picture of my favorite doe, but I don't feel comfortable posting it until I have a deposit on her, but if all pans out, I'll post it early next week *


Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

[Haven]

Congrats! I am so excited for you. I am in the same boat as you, researching and learning but now I am jealous since you ran out and found some nice ones already Can we get some pics, I would love to see them!

I have been having the same issues that you mentioned above, as far as finding someone with a healthy clean herd to buy from. Seems a lot harder in meat goats.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Stuff to have on hand:
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/med-supplies-etc.htm

[Missy M]

Thank you for this post LoneStrChic23 I am in a similar situation as you are, but hoping to go goats in the next year or two. We've just got our place last year and started with chickens this spring. My husband is learning the reality of farm life. I have almost no breeders close to me and the goats around here are poorly cared for (not all, but in general). I have found the suggestions here helpful too. Thanks You all!