Mis-information and disease......

ozark_jewels · #1 08/03/10, 07:42 PM

I was at the Ozark Empire Fair in Springfield, MO yesterday(going back on Thursday as I want to see the dairy goats and dairy cows). Haven't been there in several years.
They did not have the birthing shed as in years past(possibly due to the excessive heat, 109* in the parking lot, worse on the fairway), but they did have an indoor area with animals that you could pet and read "fact sheets" on. They had a pig, mules, horses, chickens, calves, cows, etc. They also had two small pens with two goats in each pen. One young min-Nubian doeling and one young Pygmy(or ND, I'm not sure) doeling in one pen. In the other was a young Boer doe, and a young adult wether, possibly Boer/Nubian.

The young pygmy/ND had a significant lump under one ear and the wether had an even bigger lump under his ear. So these are for people to pet and love on and they have CL.......yech. Great example for the introduction to goats. Other than the CL lumps, the goats looked ok.

Then I read the "fact sheet" on the goats(the others I'd read so far had been very accurate). It said that:

NANNY WAS A FEMALE GOAT.

BILLY WAS A MALE GOAT.

DOE WAS A YOUNG FEMALE THAT HAS NOT BEEN BRED.

No other mention of "doe", no mention of "buck" or "doeling" at all. The rest of the info was decently accurate.

I don't mind if someone wants to call their goats "nanny" and "billy", those are terms for bucks and does, I don't deny it. But they should have put the proper terms of "buck" and "doe" up there as well. Also, the "doe" being a young unbred female.................

If there had been anyone there to talk to, I would have. I just hate to see goats misrepresented to the unknowing public. We have enough misinformation out there already.

And of course the people petted the CL goats, then went down and petted all the beautiful show Boers in the big barn......

Pony · #2 08/03/10, 07:54 PM

AAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH!

NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo!

Is there an entity in charge of this shebang? Someone to whom these concerns can be addressed?

The misinformation is bad enough, but if I knew that someone was spreading CL to my show stock, I'd be absolutely LIVID and loaded for bear!

Oh.

My.

Goodness.

I am sitting here with my mouth WIDE open (better close it; lots of flies in here). I'd start ranting and raving, but I'd scare the animals...

cathleenc · #3 08/03/10, 07:57 PM

I hear you. Our county fair had abysmal examples of goats this year. While I did not see any obvious cases of CL I did see lots of very underfed goats, a doe with a completely unbalanced udder, another doe with a huge scar mid-rumen area - her shower said she had gotten impaled on a branch. Lousey examples of what good healthy goats should look like. Even saw one 4-h kid with a big sign on display describing their goats as 'nubean' breed.

ozark_jewels · #4 08/03/10, 07:59 PM

I'll be going back Thursday for the dairy goats and cows. I intend to find out who to talk to then. If nothing else, just having a knowledgable person there to inspect the goats as they were brought to the petting station, would be a great help. I don't see how someone in the know, could miss those growing lumps.
Most Boer breeders that I have talked to(especially on the show side of things), vaccinate for the prevention of CL already. So in this case, I guess thats a good thing.
Years ago I was at a dairy goat show and a lady with Toggs had a doe with a big lump under one ear. She was just along for the ride as they had to bring her to milk her, they were not showing her. I pointed the lump out and innocently asked what it was......she got kinda stuffy and mumbled about a scar.....

HappyFarmer · #5 08/03/10, 08:00 PM

<Sigh>
Too bad you couldn't find someone, if not this time at least next time it might be correct, cause one of those crazy goat lady's pointed out the error. I'd point it out, too!

HF

Wonderland · #6 08/03/10, 08:10 PM

Ickkk. That's awful.

I remember at our fair last year they had a petting zoo...and the animals were so awful looking. One doe in particular - she looked like a Saanen mix - was so emaciated, I don't know how she was standing. My mom confronted the owner about it, and he just said, "Oh, it's because she's in milk...." I'm sorry, but does in milk shouldn't lose THAT much weight.

**mygoat** · #7 08/03/10, 09:05 PM

I tried 4-H one year. Wouldn't do it again. I knew far more than my director and the lack of disease knowledge was astounding.

I did get someone to help me with showmanship stuff, where the judge asks kids questions about goat care. One of the things she asked me was 'what's the most common disease in goats?" and I answered "Probably parasite overload". She said no, it was a disease called 'abscesses'. She explained (poorly) what it was, and recognized it to be Caseous Lymphadenitis... and I actually spent about 10 minutes educating her (and my supervisor!) about CL, CAE, and Johne's disease.

This was just one sign of misinformation. Poor feeding (not skinny but either fat or feeding POUNDS to boer wethers or bad hay, etc) , parents doing most of the kids' work, and NOBODY milking their dairy does but me 2x per day... just seemed odd.

How does one become a 4-h supervisor? LOL

pygmybabies · #8 08/03/10, 09:14 PM

good thing i have all of you. the ones who really knows the stuff we need to know!! let us know ozark what you find out THursday

Pony · #9 08/03/10, 09:19 PM

@MyGoats, I think you have a really good idea there.

I'm going to ask around, see what it takes to be a sponsor for 4H...

Wonderland · #10 08/03/10, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

How does one become a 4-h supervisor? LOL

I've wondered that myself. I think it would be great to work with and educate the kids!

FunnyRiverFarm · #11 08/03/10, 10:11 PM

Mygoat--you are right--most folks around here don't know squat about goats or how to care for them. When I did 4h there was not even a club for dairy goats in my area...I had to join a club for horses to participate...obviously did not learn a thing. Goats are just not taken as seriously as other livestock at this point.

I have seriously considered becoming a 4H volunteer because of this. I want people that are trying to get started with goats to be successful...and to do that they need access to information and a mentor with knowledge on the subject.

farmerjohn · #12 08/03/10, 10:11 PM

Being a Project Supervisor is a volunteer position in 4-H. Also as a leader. Both when there is an opening or someone has stepped down from the position. Could though be volunteer additional help/assistant. Judges are not usually from the same county. Leaders and Project Supervisors are through your local Extension Office. You could possibly put together a demonstration and have the various clubs attend to learn proper handeling, grooming and showmanship skills.

Cannon_Farms · #13 08/04/10, 07:58 AM

i do goat education classes at tractor supply and the extension office puts the word out and I normally have a good amount of folks show up. I know that if you have a local TSC most of the store managers would love something like that to be put on if you wanted to do something locally.
Just try not to bash the uneducated employees so much

JR05 · #14 08/04/10, 08:07 AM

I was asked several years ago to become a 4-H teacher for the dairy goat group locally. I was handed an application and told it would require a $50. background check before I was approved. Not a problem as I have to have a background check yearly for my work but just didn't have the time to get started with a group as my weekends were the only real time I had to spend with MY own goats. I think the local Ag office is the ones that process the applications.I think all volunteer work should require a background check when working with children.

coso · #15 08/04/10, 09:21 AM

Ozark Jewells, You may want to go here http://resources.ozarkempirefair.com... Gen Rules.pdf and print that off to take with you. Regs say Goats must be free of clinical signs of an infectious or contagious disease. I know most shows the vet comes around and checks health certificates, but I bet you money the exhibit goats did not get checked since they weren't in the main goat barns and there were just a few of them.

wintrrwolf · #16 08/04/10, 09:28 AM

I am beginning to get worried my DD didnt join 4H this year but will be joining FFA, from what I understand they focus on meat goats not dairy, and not even on meat goats that much. So how can a Judge judge if they dont know that much about goats at all?

farmerjohn · #17 08/04/10, 12:31 PM

Ahhh-you would be surprised about judges and juding and qualifications. It has come to the point almost that what or whomever volunteers is who gets the position. Does not mean they are qualified. Some states do not require 4-H members to attend even meetings. Unfortunately every one will have a horror story about a good idea such as
4-H being very political and biased. There are many stories of kids/families quiting because of bad experiences and lack of support.

julieq · #18 08/04/10, 01:31 PM

This is exactly why we are very careful who we purchase goats from (tested, clean herd), we don't show and we don't allow just anyone in our barn. CL is bad enough, but CAE is actually a retrovirus like AIDS. Not anything we want in our family's raw milk supply...

ozark_jewels · #19 08/04/10, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coso

Ozark Jewells, You may want to go here http://resources.ozarkempirefair.com... Gen Rules.pdf and print that off to take with you. Regs say Goats must be free of clinical signs of an infectious or contagious disease. I know most shows the vet comes around and checks health certificates, but I bet you money the exhibit goats did not get checked since they weren't in the main goat barns and there were just a few of them.

Thanks!! I figure the same thing. The exhibit goats probably didn't get checked(or at least checked by someone who knew goats). I'm terribly paranoid about CL, so it was the first thing I noticed.
I just printed off the fair rules and I also printed off an article with pictures of common CL locations. The number one location I've ever personally seen, was under the ear.

chewie · #20 08/05/10, 12:22 AM

oh boy, i could write pages. just finished 4H today. sad at the least. half the amt of kids showing, hardly ANY ppl came to see the animals/show at all.

and the pen of 4 boer babies was horrible. born in april, but were about the size of my saanen babies at 3-4 weeks old. owner told me first thing that they had another one but 'it died this morning, we've lost several this spring,...don't know why' the ones in the pen, those poor things were thin with no food or water til well after noon, and it was horribly hot.

when i stopped one of the staff, i told her to keep my name out of it, but, that 'one baby is very sick--he was hunched over, clamped tail, and crying.' he would rub against the fence and then stumble/fall down. when she then told the head staff guy, he loudly said (i was near by but not too close, so i am sure it was for my benefit) 'oh, they're not sick, they're meat goat, not dairy.' oh, how stupid of me!! meat goats are a totally different type of animal!! they are suppose to be hunched and crying and skinny!!

i have tried many times to raise the level of health concern, but they just treat me as if i am trying to only be a royal pain in the.... they simply don't care. but can't figure out why their numbers are dwindling??! i tried many times to call one of the main leaders, so my kids could join their group, but she never returns calls to anyone. so now we're listed as independants. i feel we loose out on alot of what 4H is about. but its such a rotten county that i'd rather us NOT be a group.

the other ppl who show had many cl lumps a couple years ago and again, when i bring it up, nobody listens, or they give me some pat phrase and brush me off. the local vet is a joke, barely worth having at all, he knows less about goats than i do (and that is REALLY sad!!) and i also hear alot of wrong 'facts' these so called leaders tell ppl.

this year i did pretty good at keeping ourselves away from the others, but its a shame we have to go thru that just to show them. i am doubting we'll do much more of it. last year i kept our animals in the trailer, it was cool that day, and just took them home after the show. this year, they made a new rule tho.--if we dont' keep our goats in the 4H barn, they will ban us, same if we dont' have them there both days, we will no longer be able to show. (they want a free petting zoo to get ppl interested is what they say) but yet they ignore my health issues. and the leader who doesn't return calls--the head of the leaders, who owns no goats, is the one that made up that rule!!! and the office can't even tell me why!?