Failure to Thrive

beccachow · #1 07/10/10, 08:43 PM

My wether, ------, is 1/2 angora, and one half something else altogether...thought it was Nuby, but it isn't. Anyhow, he isn't technically "mine," but he is in with my guys and is totally my responsibility. No matter, I care for him deeply, he is a cool character.

A few months back, he developed horrible diarrhea and lost a ton of weight. The owners decided to take him to another farm for more intensive treatment (don't get me started, with me he was getting pepto/yogurt 4 times per day, plus pennicillin and de-wormers, and CD&T just in case, over there, I don't know what they were doing). Eventually, he did come back to me, diarrhea stopped, but skin and bones. He is STILL skin and bones. I de-wormed him again with a feed through a few days back. He is healthy, alert, bright eyes, no fever, gums pink and pretty, little tail up and happy, very vocal. At this point if he were MY goat, I would have had a blood test done to try to figure out WHAT is going on. Their solution is to give him grain. Folks, it doesn't seem a grain issue at all. He is a wether, grain makes me nervous. He has had a ton to eat in the field, he is the only one skinny. I have been letting them out as much as possible for an hour, maybe two at a time. I am getting grief for not giving him grain (they think that is the solution to everything!!) but the sheep and one of my pygmies choke on grain by bolting it, so if they want to grain him, THEY need to come and get him out and give him grain. I'm just not feeling it. He started losing in the winter despite getting grain and free choice hay, so I truly feel there is something else going on.

If he had Barber Pole worm a few weeks back, I have read that he might never thrive again.

Any suggestions? DOES he need grain?? I don't want to interfere too much as he isn't mine, but he is sort of mine, you know?

Oat Bucket Farm · #2 07/10/10, 10:11 PM

Have you wormed with Cydectin? How old was he when he developed the diarrhea? Could it have been cocci? Have you done a fecal?

Minelson · #3 07/10/10, 10:42 PM

I would check his teeth and check for Tape worm

beccachow · #4 07/11/10, 07:27 AM

I don't recall what I was giving him, it was a broad spectrum de-wormer when he developed the diarrhea. He is about 2 years old, I guesstimate, so he had the diarrhea episode at about 18 months. I treated him for cocci as well since that was my biggest fear. I don't have a vet around that can do a fecal for us, though I think I will take the advice given before and see if the doggie vet can at least determine if he has parasites, though they might not be able to tell me what exactly they are. When I get home I'll check the feed-through de-wormer and see what it is.

Tapeworm? Yikes, but anything is possible!

Alice In TX/MO · #5 07/11/10, 07:34 AM

I have a spreadsheet where I write down dates and information on goat treatments. It's important to know when you used a product and what it was.

Eunice · #6 07/11/10, 08:18 AM

There are more causes to scours/diarrhea in goats than just worms. Look at this article.
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ar...eaingoats.html

beccachow · #7 07/11/10, 08:56 AM

Thank you for that article. I thought his initial diarrhea was due to the owner suddenly feeding him buckets of grain daily, all at once with no gradual increase! I am just stumped. He has normal goat marbles now, but is just skeletal

.

where I want to · #8 07/11/10, 09:20 AM

If he were mne, I would do a fecal, if it didn't show significant issues, I would try worming him with something to get liver flukes, then after a relatively short time, something to get tapes.

Alice In TX/MO · #9 07/11/10, 10:21 AM

I know if kids have coccidia too long and too bad, their intestines are damaged to the point that they can't absorb nutrients well.

That may be part of the problem.

Oat Bucket Farm · #10 07/11/10, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

I know if kids have coccidia too long and too bad, their intestines are damaged to the point that they can't absorb nutrients well.

That may be part of the problem.

That is what I was thinking, but could it have been cocci at 18 months?

From what I ahve read, feed through wormers don't really do it for goats. I would fecal him and if it showed a worm load I would use Cydectin (either pour on or the Quest paste horse wormer). Of course if there is a worm load, what you use will kind of depend on what the fecal reveals. You may need something different if the fecal reveals liver flukes or tape worms.

Do you copper bolus? Goats that have deficient levels of copper can have trouble keeping weight on.

If all of the other goats are fine as far as weight goes and this wether is skeletal, then I would try to pin point the source of the problem before I started dumping a bunch of grain down him which really isn't good for a wether.

Alice In TX/MO · #11 07/11/10, 11:12 AM

I know it's mainly kids who have cocci problems, but I was just brainstorming.

beccachow · #12 07/11/10, 12:38 PM

And I appreciate it!! I threw the book at him when he had the diarrhea, cocci worried me. I think I ordered horse de-wormer in a paste, I'll see what kind it is. I'll also contact the vet to see if she can do a goat fecal. Hey, poo is poo, right?

How do you "bolus copper," and is it something I need to seperate Sammy Sheep from? Sorry, they were doing pretty well on their own except for a few tough patches, so this is all new. I might even have some kind of a drench at home, after I lost Sandy two years ago I went haywire and purchased all kinds of "just in case" stuff.

I can't get the real owners to understand that the amount of grain they want to give him is just unnecessary and the possible benefit doesn't outweigh the potential dangers

. I also cannot afford a vet to come out for THEIR goat. On the other hand, I love him dearly and already see how this is going to play out

.

prairiedog · #13 07/11/10, 04:14 PM

a copper bolus is just a capsule with tiny pieces of copper in it that you shove down their throats. You can order a whole bottle or there are some on here believe that are willing to send you a few

where I want to · #14 07/11/10, 04:34 PM

Tell them about overeating disease- that should help them understand what it can do to a goatie's gut. Even though they should be vaccinated for it, it can still cause really serious and fast death.
I use horse wormer too because I find it more cost effective for the number of goats I have- and it's easier to get a gel or paste to stay inside their mouths.
I copper bolus too but have never seen a real issue with that and weight.
Is he drinking OK?

beccachow · #15 07/11/10, 04:34 PM

Hmmm, does Jeffers sell it? I'm off to see!

Yes, he is drinking fine, seems to be peeing fine, and his poops are normal goat marbles. I believe, however, that ------ has a drinking problem. I had them out and was goat sitting in a nice chair, book in my lap, adult beverage opened and ice cold...and I had to keep chasing ------ away from it!!! He kept sneaking back in, I believe he actually got his tongue down the mouth of the bottle while I was trying to push him away. It is sad, really, the kids are always the ones who suffer

!

ETA: I believe I'll order a bottle of it, and try to give it to the goats at least once per month. Having a sheep thrown in makes it a bit difficult, not impossible, just difficult. I can't put a mineral block out for them, right? Sammy Sheep (I LOVE that sheep, by the way, he is a slick character) can't have anything the goats can have, like copper, if I am recalling. But to feed the goats something is easy to achieve, Sammy goes out for a graze and the others get a nice snack.

Alice In TX/MO · #16 07/11/10, 04:48 PM

You're going to order a bottle of what? and give it how often? and why?

Here's a link to a page of info on copper. Scroll down about 2/3 of the way to get to the how to and how it works part:
http://saanendoah.com/copper1.html

prairiedog · #17 07/11/10, 05:03 PM

yea once a month would be way to often

beccachow · #18 07/11/10, 05:03 PM

Thank you! I need you guys to keep me straight. Thanks for the link!

OK, this is all pointing to the same thing...blood works and fecals. On my dime. But to save my beloved alcoholic goat, I'll figure it out. I just KNOW it isn't a food thing, the others look like they swallowed bowling balls. I am tired of guessing and trying to figure it out, it is time for some real intervention for him before it's too late.

Errr...anyone know a good goat vet in MD? Cause I sure don't

.

Oat Bucket Farm · #19 07/11/10, 05:05 PM

If you are planning on buying a bottle of copper, please read the link Alice gave you first! You can overdose them on copper too!

beccachow · #20 07/11/10, 06:42 PM

Yah, I just found that out. I promise I would have researched first!!!

I just emailed the "owner" and sort of laid it out for her; I am getting the fecal, we are trying a little of this and that, and if he doesn't start doing better or nothing shows inthe fecal, we are getting a vet out. Period. I have lost too many sweeties to diseases that wiped them out before I even knew they were sick. I have also followed my gut and just recently saved one. If she doesn't like it, she can come take him away, I will not watch them gorge him on grain and cause even worse issues.

Wow, beccachow got a little tough!