LGD...Llama...mule??? Goat protection

[pygmybabies]

Well if you remember I got all the stuff except charger for my electric fence at a farm auction but because of all the rain the field coulnt get mowed until this last thursday... now we are thinking about letting them have the whole pasture...that is about 14 acres? Need some advice...would you let yours have that much area? There is a pond as well, how would they do with that? What if they fall in, can they swim?? If I let them do that I definatley would like some kind of protection for them, there are coyotes around here. Would like to hear about what you guys use. Also, if you get a LGD what is the trraining process and can they also be taught to respect and like poople and the dogs in the yard and what about chickens? I was thinking about a gp and found a 1 1/2 yr old but wonder how she would do with the other dogs that are in the yard ( underground fence) they stay by the house, but if they got loose would like for them not to be attacked either? Man I just dont know what to do. Llamas are big and so are mules, dont know if I want to go that big. Also though Llamas eat hay/grass right would it really be cheaper in the long run then buying dog food for a big dog? All help and advice would be appreciated!!

[wintrrwolf]

mini donkey!! Until I breed Honeybear then you can have one of her pups and then raise it up in the enviroment you have. hmmm 14 acres, seriously think you need more goats LOL

[pygmybabies]

oh no remember I can only have 7 lol!! Now you have 7 and some on the way!

[Rockytopsis]

I prefer a LGD, we got ours at 4 months old. They had been with the mom long enough to learn a lot about goats and yes they can swim, most don't like the water but they can swim.

Nancy

[deineria]

It is donkies you use, not mules, but using either a Llama or Donkey requires getting just the right one. . .need to be a castrated male if you get a llama. . .not super people friendly and must be the only one so he bonds with the goats. Every llama and donkey will not work.
Now, the donkey that will protect from coyotes might also attack you own dogs, but if you get the right one. . .you're good to go.

Llamas aren't cheap - they have to have a grain mix and monthly invomec injection to protect against the M-worm. They also need shorn in the summer and their nails need clipped a few times, at least, a year.

We have a Pyr and a Llama.

If you get a previously trained Pyr, he/she probably won't accept your dogs. . .you can do a trial and see, I guess.

Ours wasn't really previously trained, so she happily accepted the dogs we have. She doesn't guard the goats, but she guards the farm in general.

Our llama is scared of cats, let alone dogs or Coyotes. lol.

Our goats free range on 23 acres, but they mostly stick on the front few acres by the house and barn. We lock them up at night, so you might do that in the meantime.

If you get a young dog and train it, you are probably going to be happiest, but you're going to have to wait awhile for actual protection for the goats, in that case.

Ours are around a pond with no problem.

[wintrrwolf]

PB tell your DH that wintrrwolf now has 8 goats(Pawnee makes 8) and Inga is kidding soon so you have to catch up again (cackle) he is soooo gonna hate me!
If you start with a LGD I would do a pup 4-6m, granted Honeybear is turning out well but still I might have just been lucky and a LGD at 1 1/2 is large, harder to work with and depending on how its raised will depend on how much training it will need.

[Minelson]

I would love to get a LGD...but I wouldn't be able to let the dog do it's job...I'm afraid it would end up in the house. It would end up in the house. I'm too smooshy.

[billooo2]

I have seen a couple FEMALE llamas with sheep. The owners were very happy with them......and I was impressed. (They said that sometimes gelded llamas will still try to breed sheep and goats.)
LGD's you may need VERY GOOD fencing around that 14 acres!!

[deineria]

I have just found the females I've dealt with to be smaller, more apt to run and be afraid . . .far less territorial, and if you don't geld young enough, yes, I bet there would be issues with some males trying to breed.

[jordan]

There was just a thread on here a few days ago about someone's donkey who killed 4 of her goats. Since that isn't the first story I've heard like that, I'd stay clear of donkeys. It's just too big a risk.
I know some people who couldn't figure out why their goats were unexpectedly dying, until they went out and found their gelded llama's had "mounted" yet another goat and killed it too. Bye-bye llama.
Frankly, if I had a problem with coyotes, wolves, bear, etc. I'd want something with TEETH as well as something that had the ability (through it's warning system of barking) to keep predators from even entering the property!
Find yourself a good dog and be aware that regardless of who you get it from or if it's raised with goats or not, you will need to invest your time in supervision and training. Depending on your set-up and situation, the dog may end up being just as effective loose on the farm keeping predators from even entering, as it can be living with the goats 24/7.
Good luck!
Lois

[farmmom]

On the subject of the 14 acres, I would recommend splitting it and doing rotational grazing/browsing. This assists in parasite prevention and allows the various sections to regrow. I'm going to do this on a mini scale on my 3 acres.

Also, I love my LGD. He's ok for my small acreage, but you would probably need 2 or more to effectively patrol that large an area I think.

[sunnyday]

We love our guard llama! He sounds...a shrill whistle sort of sound. He knows our dogs, and is wary of them, but doesn't herd the goats when the dogs are near the fence.....but when two stranger dogs were in the next pasture over, he broke through cattle panels to run the fence opposite of them, even thought the goats were locked up in the barn (night-time).

Our llama is not too tame, but tolerates people, and moves where we want him to. All he eats is the goats hay...he won't eat grain. Very easy keeper.....

I knew I couldn't get a LGD...like Minelson, it would end up in the house! I can't bring my 400lb llama in the house

And what could be cuter than three Niggie babies jumping around on a llamas back while he's laying down!

Good luck with your choice....

[victory]

I do know someone who got a LGD at about 6 months, he was worthless with the goats till he turned two, that was a long time to wait, although she kept him close to the goats, he was just trying to play and chew on the babies all the time, then when he turned two, the lights went ON!! He knew his job, and he was raised around sheep and goats..
I have heard that Emu's make excellent guards, they HATE coyotes and will kill them given the chance. They are easy keepers, and who would want a 40 pound chicken chasing them!!?? EEEK!!!
Myself, I have a great ol lassie dog. I will always have a standard collie, no offense but she's not too smart like a border collie. She doesn't need alot to keep her happy although she loves to bark. She knows her job, and takes it very seriously. She not only guards our place, but the neighbors and their neighbors. She has a hole in our back fence she crawls out of at night to chase the coyotes and coons away. She is worth her weight in gold!!!

[motdaugrnds]

I, too, prefer dogs. "Any" dog can be trained to guard a small herd of goats. I have trained 3 already (shephard/lab/chow mix; pure shephard; pure lab). Each has helped train the others. It is not an easy task and does take time; but well worth it.

[Our Little Farm]

I would do rotational grazing on that land and get an LGD. We have one and would not be without him.

[Wonderland]

I've heard stories of donkeys killing goats and sheep, too. I just would not risk that. I'm sure the "right" one could do just fine, but the risk in getting the wrong one instead would just be too much.

I don't know much about guard llamas, but the breeders I know who owned a guard llama were not impressed. They didn't do their job. Also, they just seem like they would be too easily overtaken by a large predator, or a group of predators (like a pack of dogs or coyotes).

I have a Great Pyr as a guardian and I absolutely love her. She was raised with goats before we bought her, and she was understanding her job by the time she was probably about 6 months old. She herds the goats up when she senses a threat, and will run the fence in between the goats and stray dogs. I have no doubts that she does the same thing at night to coyotes, which I'm sure come up. I also just bought a Great Pyr puppy, who was also kept with goats since birth, and Mellow accepted him immediately. He's going to guard my buck and whether, but right now he's with her and the does to learn the ropes. He already hangs out with the goats, and I've seen him try to follow Mellow around the fence when she was barking at a "threat." I've got no doubts that he'll learn his job quickly and be just as great as Mellow is! Personally, I think LGD are worth their weight in gold. Just be sure you get them from someone who is using their parents as guardians.

Originally Posted by jordan

There was just a thread on here a few days ago about someone's donkey who killed 4 of her goats. Since that isn't the first story I've heard like that, I'd stay clear of donkeys. It's just too big a risk.
I know some people who couldn't figure out why their goats were unexpectedly dying, until they went out and found their gelded llama's had "mounted" yet another goat and killed it too. Bye-bye llama.
Frankly, if I had a problem with coyotes, wolves, bear, etc. I'd want something with TEETH as well as something that had the ability (through it's warning system of barking) to keep predators from even entering the property!
Find yourself a good dog and be aware that regardless of who you get it from or if it's raised with goats or not, you will need to invest your time in supervision and training. Depending on your set-up and situation, the dog may end up being just as effective loose on the farm keeping predators from even entering, as it can be living with the goats 24/7.
Good luck!
Lois

[Idahoe]

I got two llamas a month ago, a male and a female (the male will be gelded when he's old enough, not quite yet). I have three Nubian goats.

I've kept my dog out of the pasture, but he followed me in two days ago. He did his approach/darting around in front of the female llama. She kicked him in the head hard enough it sounded like wood on wood and my poor dog went yowling back OUT of the pasture. He is humiliated but not permanently injured

Llamas do not like dogs. Mine do not like chickens who fly over the pasture fence either. I had to go rescue one poor girl who thank God can fly pretty well and avoid stomping llama feet.

I'm hoping this dislike of scuttling creatures will translate into not only coyotes and dogs but weasels, foxes, coons and skunks, who I do not want in my pasture either.

Both llamas lie with the goats. The female even "plays" with the goats. It's cute to see her playing llama games with the goats while the goats try to play goat games with the llama.

The breeder I bought them from said that in his experience of almost 30 years with llamas (his dad imported a bunch when he was a kid) it doesn't matter if the llama is male or female, and unless you have an unusually timid llama, they will guard.

I think they are cheaper keepers than goats. They need nothing but minerals free choice and good pasture or hay. Even when breeding and nursing. So I've heard. They browse AND they graze. They have to be sheared once a year. Their toenails must be trimmed.

I can't have an LGD because I don't have enough land to keep them on (three acres). I've only had mine a month, like I said, but so far I'm seeing territorial behavior, and even friendship with my goats

A pack of dogs or coyotes can overwhelm even a large LGD. At least injure them mortally. And the cost of replacing a good LGD is much more than a llama (buyers market these days). No guard animal can be expected to ward off a pack of predators. If the guard animal must lose it's life in it's attempts to guard, to *me* (IMO) losing a llama is less costly, short and long term, than a LGD. I don't want to even lose a rooster, and my llamas are not expendable in my heart. It's a tough choice I make that fits my sitch best.

[pygmybabies]

Ok so i am going back and forth on the great pyr...I have 2 dogs now that are in the yard and not the field, Would the gp accept them if we get and 8 week old, if he is kept in barm/pasture, but can see them and hear them. Does your lgd friendly enough that when you feed them and handle the goats they respect you as the owner? I have no problem training i just wonder how to do it. I have been taking the two i have out with the goats and chickens a little at a time, and they are doing pretty good, the one i was worried about (shw has killed chickens in the past) had to be put to sleep 2 weeks ao, she was bad but she was my dog and I never gave up on her, that is a whole nother story! Anyways I just want a dog to watch animals be friendly to me my cats/kittens, chickens and the 2 dogs I have, I also dont want them to attack someone that might come to pond to fish if we let them, so I guess I should find a book or something that I can learn from fires. I found one for sale that is a male 8 weeks old. I am not gonna make a desicion until I am confident.

[wintrrwolf]

Here's a story for ya...
When I went to get my first goat the place I went to had a GP just laying in the driveway. I estimated his age at about a 1yr. Anyways I made all the cute little noises that one makes to a dog that gets em all friendly and want you to pet em, he would have none of it, just trotted down the driveway and up the road. Come to find out the dog didnt even belong to the people but was their neighbors, just comes over every day and watches their goats, chickens, turkeys and human kids.
Another instance...went to another place to get another goat of course and they had the biggest GP I had ever seen laying on the porch, he rose to greet me, and then proceeded to follow me where ever I went, while the lady showed me her goats. Now if I stopped petting his head or scratching his ears he would wrap his paws around my leg and wouldn't let go until I started petting him again. He was 4 yrs old. Weird in the same breed having 2 far different personalities.
pics of my new LGD settling in


sorry pics were from the window in the house

[pygmybabies]

Is that HoneyBear...your new rescue dog? Couldnt go outside cause it rained so hard!