Has anyone seen ...

motdaugrnds · #1 05/25/10, 10:18 AM

this? (The picture doesn't show it well; but the hair is much thinner in those areas.)

Has anyone seen ... - Goats

At first I thought was a sign of selenium deficiency; so I gave the buck some Bo-Se. But it isn't getting better. (It reminds me of a snake shedding its skin.)

This buck is the only goat in entire herd with this condition. He is also the oldest. He has no fever, eats and grazes as others do, drinks water and has the baking soda and Hoegger's minerals free choice. (He has also had his CD/T shot for this spring and been wormed.) He is normal in every other way and is still cuddly as ever.

This has me stumped. I am wondering if this may be symptomatic of deficiency in copper. Is it? If not, any ideas?

Alice In TX/MO · #2 05/25/10, 10:37 AM

Mites??

shiandpete.1 · #3 05/25/10, 11:10 AM

Lice?

TSYORK · #4 05/25/10, 01:30 PM

Worm her pretty hard, and it will probably resolve.

RiverPines · #5 05/25/10, 02:02 PM

I saw that once on an old goat I had. He was a rescue.
We didnt know his age but the vet figured over 8 at least.
For a year we tried everything with the vet to correct the problem.

The problem was he was getting to old to maintain condition. No matter what we tried he couldn't keep condition. His body was just run down from time.
I didnt think he was that old but as the vet said just like people, goats age differently and for some 8 is old and others 12 is. His skin was just a sign of his body breaking down from age.

After a year of trying, putting everything imaginable in him, concentrated minerals of several kinds, vitamin sups, keeping him totally worm and parasite free, etc and a lot of tears with the hope fading that he would ever improve, he died quietly in my arms.

Minelson · #6 05/25/10, 06:32 PM

How come I don't see a picture?

mpete · #7 05/25/10, 09:05 PM

I had a doeling do that in a small patch, she also had a small run with lice so I dusted her then I used wound spray twice a day, it healed up. Have you tried a betadine bath? Then maybe use a mite spray or dust?

Cannon_Farms · #8 05/25/10, 09:53 PM

I would give him a good scrubbing with a mite killing solution, however I think this is from high corn or bad feed diet. A coat has to heal from the inside out, so if he was mine I would make sure to get check out a skin scraping, get a fecal to see what parasite you might be dealing with and in any case i would then start adding some type of oil to his diet, preferably something other than corn or a horse coat supplement to start the healing process.
If you could keep him out of the sun for a couple days I would treat him with MTG as it would kill the potential skin parasites and help condition the coat.
MTG is something you can find at Tractor supply or other livestock suppliers and is normally where the horse shampoo is, however do not get the mtg shampoo, this stuff should smell like sulfer a bit. Wear gloves as the smell is hard to get off your hands but it will grow hair on a fish but.

motdaugrnds · #9 05/26/10, 05:54 AM

Minelson, I don't understand why you cannot see the picture; however, the url I used for it is "motdaugrnds.250free.com/sharing/skin.jpg" Maybe you can see it by using that url in your browser. (Be aware it will take awhile to load as I forgot to renew my site and it presently has quite a few ads on it. Grrrrr)

I do appreciate all responses. Thank you.

I gave him a good bath yesterday afternoon. (It was a warm day with off & on light showers. I mixed only soap into the warm water I used, scrubbed him down good "all over"; rinsed him with more warm water; then rinsed him good with the warm water that was in our extra long waterhose that had been laying out in the sun all day. Then I took one ounce of a seven/water solution I had prepared before to spray my almond tree with and mixed it in with another 2 gal warm water and poured that all over him. Then I towel dried him.) He enjoyed this immensely.

It is extremely early here and I have not been outdoors as yet; but I will be checking on him when I take him his grain. (He always gets the same amount of grain .. the same mixture .. I give the other buck; and I know for sure it is not bad; also it is mostly sweet goat feed and alfalfa pellets with a very small amount of corn. It always has a small handfull of BOSS mixed in it as well. Thus, I do not believe it is the feed.) I will give him a big glob of Probios Paste this morning just in case the wash upsets his digestion, though I don't think it will

I will reduce "his" (corn starting today) for awhile and see what that does.

At this time of year and the structures I have, it would be impossible to keep him out of the sun as even our most sheltered area has a sun window and a partial roof that sun shines through. Thus, I don't believe it would be wise to use the MTG on him.

I will see how this treatment affects him. If deemed necessary I will dilute some "udder wash" and stain him good with that. I will let you all know what works.

Alice In TX/MO · #10 05/26/10, 06:26 AM

Saying this gently, because you are going to get some baaaad feedback on his diet. It's so easy to make goat care mistakes before you learn more about what goats need. The feed store workers are not good advisors.

Goats, especially male goats and goats who aren't being milked, don't need sweet feed, anything with molasses, corn, or grain.

He needs good hay or browse, a little BOSS, and *maybe* a bit of NON molasses goat feed.

What I do: because my bucks have browse available, they only get 1/2 and 1/2 - medicated buck feed (with ammonium chloride added) and alfalfa pellets. This balances the calcium and phosphorous so they don't have urinary calculi problems.

They do not get any corn, sweet feed, molasses, etc.

I'd stop the corn and sweet feed to all your male goats. There are other healthier ways to feed.

motdaugrnds · #11 05/26/10, 07:52 AM

Thank you Alice. I appreciate any information as long as it is presented as positively as you presented it.

I have had a dairy herd for over 13 yrs and so far (knock on wood) they have done well (especially since I stopped asking the local vets about them).

I will stop the sweet feed slowly for the bucks (for awhile anyway) to see how they do. Have not been able to find the "medicated buck feed" at our local stores. Is that the actual name of it? (I do have some ammonium chloride I could mix with something; just not sure how much to give a 250 lb goat per day. Any idea?)

Alice In TX/MO · #12 05/26/10, 07:59 AM

It's the medicated goat feed. Ask if it has the meds for both coccidia and some ammonium chloride. I learned the hard way, losing a really nice buck, that it doesn't have *enough* ammonium chloride in it to prevent urinary calculi.

Also, as it's a "concentrated" feed, you have to balance the phosphorous with calcium, hence the 1/2 and 1/2 mixing of it with alfalfa pellets.

It's frustrating when one critter doesn't respond the same to the treatment we've been giving everyone for months or years. I guess they are like humans and have different quirks to their metabolisms, digestions, etc.

Hope you can get him looking better. I loved your bathing description!

Ammonium Chloride Dose: 1 tsp per 150 pounds

**mygoat** · #13 05/26/10, 08:50 AM

I don't feed any grain to bucks, at all. They also get good grass hay, or grass hay with a LITTLE bit of alfalfa in it. Free choice minerals, of course. If I used my bucks heavily every year I might consider adding a little grain to their diet during the breeding season, but they do just fine on a hay diet. My bucks never get alfalfa pellets - bucks simply do not need it, plus it will cause the improper balance of calcium and (phosphorous I believe).

Anywho, as for his skin, I would try adding BOSS and Vitamin E to his diet. I would also give him a bath and a haircut. After the winter, some of my goats have a LOT of dead skin in their undercoat that makes them look like this kinda when they're shedding - however after a bath and a haircut they look great and don't get it again until they shed the next year.

mpete · #14 05/26/10, 10:31 AM

We are having a vet speak next month at our club about the lastest information on UC. We have had a huge problem with UC lately here in our area. I will let everyone know what the outcome is

Cliff · #15 05/26/10, 12:44 PM

Are you familiar with rain rot on horses?
Goats can get rain rot as well and that's what it looks like to me in the pic.
From the Merck manual:

Dermatophilosis is a bacterial skin disease caused by Dermatophilus congolensis, and is also known as rain rot, lumpy wool, and strawberry foot rot. It most commonly affects cattle, sheep, goats, and horses. The disease is spread by direct contact with infected skin or through biting insects. Wet conditions allow the bacteria to spread. It causes thick scabs, and when the hair is pulled, the tuft of skin looks like a paintbrush. Infections in humans are rare, but people can develop sores that form ulcers, often resulting in scarring. Infected animals should be isolated and treated with antibiotics. Human infections can be prevented by wearing gloves and washing hands thoroughly after working with infected animals.

It is commonly called cutaneous streptothrichosis in cattle, goats, and horses; in sheep, it is termed lumpy wool when the wooled areas of the body are affected.

Chronic lumpy wool infections are characterized by pyramid-shaped masses of scab material bound to wool fibers. The crusts are primarily on the dorsal areas of the body and prevent the shearing of sheep; spiny plants often predispose to lesions on the lips, legs, and feet. Strawberry footrot is a proliferative dermatitis affecting the skin from the coronet to the carpus or hock.

Because acutely infected animals usually heal rapidly and spontaneously, treatment is indicated only for cosmetic reasons in food-producing animals. Treatment is recommended in horses because these lesions interfere with use and are painful. Organisms are susceptible to a wide range of antimicrobials—erythromycin, spiramycin, penicillin G, ampicillin, chloramphenicol, streptomycin, amoxicillin, tetracyclines, and novobiocin.
Usually, chronic infections can be rapidly and effectively cured with a single IM injection of procaine penicillin (22,000 IU/kg) and streptomycin (22 mg/kg). If this fails, the penicillin-streptomycin combination can be administered for 5 days, or a single injection of long-acting oxytetracycline (20 mg/kg) can be substituted.
In horses, the lesions should be gently soaked and removed. Topical antibacterial shampoo therapy is effective as adjuvant therapy. Chlorhexidine and benzoyl peroxide are recommended. In food-producing animals, topical applications of lime sulfur are a cost-effective adjuvant to antibacterial therapy. Insecticides applied externally are frequently used to control biting insects.
Isolating clinically affected animals, culling affected animals, and controlling ectoparasites are methods used to break the infective cycle.
http://www.merckvetmanual.com

TennesseeMama23 · #16 05/26/10, 02:00 PM

I'd put some Cylence on her.

Minelson · #17 05/26/10, 04:54 PM

Ok...today I can see the picture. hmmm...I guess I wasn't supposed to see it yesterday lol!!
Something this bad I would get a skin scraping from a vet. Also, MTG is a great product for skin issues http://www.jeffersequine.com/ssc/pro...12006&cmkw=mtg

motdaugrnds · #18 05/26/10, 05:02 PM

Cliff, thank you so much for that lengthy explanation. I was doing some reading about this in the "Goat Medicine" book and found exactly what you have just spoken of. (I had some Penicillin G on hand and gave him 12 1/2 cc of that IM this morning. I do not have any Streptomycin or Oxytetracycline and no money to buy any at this time. However, since this buck has had similar situations each year, I will get some as soon as I can and keep it on hand. Yes this buck gets this every spring; just has not been this bad. A good wash took care of it before; but this year scared me.)

This evening I will give him a big glob of Probios Paste (I love that stuff!) and another brushing. Tomorrow morning I will give him another shot of Penicillin G and another wash (using antibacterial dish soap) in the afternoon. I have some NFL I used in the past and will spread this thinly over him as well tomorrow evening after it cools down. (He is my herd buck, Roman, who was bottle fed from birth and brought home in a cardboard box, sleeping with me at night the first 3 days & in a small holding pen where he could see the rest of the herd during the day; then kept full time in that little 6x6 pen for over a week. I was very cautious about introducing him to the does; so did it slowly. It worked out so well as he is very good with all the does and still comes over to me for hugs. I get very disturbed when he is having health problems.)

TennesseeMama23, I will google "Cylence" and find out what that is. Thank you for letting me know it might help.

You people in here are so kind in the way you speak and help. Thank you all.

Minelson · #19 05/26/10, 05:51 PM

Roman sounds like a very happy and much loved herd (family) member

!

motdaugrnds · #20 05/26/10, 10:03 PM

He is not real happy right now. It is so very hot!

I took some Probios out for him. He loves that stuff! I also rubbed him down with NFL and he enjoyed that attention as well.

Our back-up herd buck is Roman's son out of a heavy milker with great formation from the Alginon line. Alginon was bottle fed from birth as well (using his own dam's milk). He bonded with our shepherd who adopted him as hers to protect. Alginon walks beside me when I am going up hill; so if I need to, I can lean on him.