Bulging eyes - cause?

[Geiss]

Posted this on another forum a week ago, but got just one reply. Hoping for more input here. Lead suspect is certainly hyperthyroidism.

I've noticed in the last six months or so that one of my goats have gotten bulgy eyes. She wasn't like this before, but she doesn't seem to be getting worse either, it just doesn't look right. It's not horrible, but you can always see the white in her eyes, like she's opening them wide.

She is in her second year, gave birth to a stillborn buckling (late miscarriage?), she and the rest have had lice but are now free and everyone is otherwise healthy. They get good varied diet with free browse, hay and loose/block minerals.

Her eyes are just bulgy, they stick out more than they should. If she were human I'd say she had hyperthyroidism, but I don't see any other symtpms..
Are there any goat-diseases that cause this or should I have her thyroxine levels tested? Does anyone have experience with this condition in goats?

[Laverne]

My does eyes bulged when she was copper deficient. Very wide eyed and bulged some. It was definitly noticable. Just the one doe. Copper deficiency can cause brain swelling, so I figured that made the eyes bulge. She is much better now. She's been on Copasure about 7 mos. now.

[Geiss]

Thanks, that's interesting. But why would single animals be deficient when they're all on the same diet? Must be some underlying cause?

[Alice In TX/MO]

Goat genetics vary just like human. One person/goat absorbs vitamins/minerals better than the next person/goat.

If you breed a Nubian to an Alpine, why can you get kids with different ears? One kid may have airplane ears, and one may have droopy ears.

Same thing.

Also, all your goats may be copper deficient, but not manifest it the same way.

[susanne]

where are you located?
what do you feed your goats? is there enough iodine in their diet?

[Alice In TX/MO]

What mineral supplement do you use?

[Natural Beauty Farm]

What did you use to get rid of lice?

[Minelson]

I don't know about the eyes...but she sure is a pretty girl! Even with the bulgy eyes

[where I want to]

This would be a real guess but there is a weed that ties up iodine. Loss of iodine, I think, can cause a problem with the thyroid gland.
Does she have an enlarged thyroid gland that you can feel?
The weed is called flix weed. And it can cause still births too. It is found in early cutting alfalfa mostly.

[Geiss]

Thanks, she is a pretty girl indeed.


She does not feel enlarged or abnormal anywhere. We were thick with weeds, but the goats naturally have changed that, so if there were any flix weed it's gone by now.

[Laverne]

Most goat owners can't get out of copper bolusing Copasure copper oxide rods. Depending on ones area copper can be severely deficient and copper is extremely important for goats. Here is some info if you want to look into it.. http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/board,6.0.html
Here's a pic of my goat before copper, the small goat in the pic.


And after copper.


A goat can get all bleached out from deficiency.

[Geiss]

Laverne: I can't access the link, I think it requires membership.

Well, since I'm in Norway I can't get copper boluses, there aren't any around here. It is also illegal to import medicinals without a permit.

But I was thinking, I could grind up the block to a dust and offer them and/or mix the powder into a paste and feed it to them like a bolus. That should work about the same? How much copper can they tolerate before it's too much? I don't want to overdose them.

[Laverne]

Do a web search, type in Dairy Goat Info, I doesn't take a membership unless one wants to make posts like here.
I don't know if copper oxide would be considered a medicinal since it's just a mineral especially for livestock. Are vitamins considered a medicinal there?
Jeffers livestock supply has the Copasure, Maybe they would ship to you.
I have mixed copper glycinate, human capsules from the health food store, into the mineral mix to boost the copper content since I determined mine was too low in it.
Mineral salt blocks don't have enough copper or minerals in them. Any block won't cut it.
Goats need a loose mineral made for livestock.

[Geiss]

Nope, Jeffers won't ship here.

The point that blocks don't have enough is because they are hard and are designed for licking. If you grind up the block into a powder then it isn't a block, it's loose minerals.

The blocks I use are designed specifically for goats and contain so much copper that whenever carrying one I must take care to keep it away from clothing and walls because everything turns red.

[Laverne]

Unfortunately a lot of minerals have too much iron and iron is red, it interferes with copper absorption in goats. Copper is on the green side.
If I was in your situation I'd do what some have done and have a bucket of water with copper pieces in it. Copper will leach into the water. Copper pipe, pots, coins and hope my goats would dose themselves, kinda like putting baking soda out to self medicate.
Do they have a ppm on the mineral block for copper? It's about 2000-2600 ppm here.
Is there a veterinary agriculture school in your country to tell you about copper levels in your area?
Who knows if your goat even has a copper problem, I know my goat improved after copper but that is for my area.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

And she looks perfectly normal to me! Vicki

[Geiss]

Originally Posted by Laverne

Unfortunately a lot of minerals have too much iron and iron is red, it interferes with copper absorption in goats. Copper is on the green side.

The blocks are very rich in copper and the reason they want it so red is so people won't make a mistake and give them to sheep.

If I was in your situation I'd do what some have done and have a bucket of water with copper pieces in it. Copper will leach into the water. Copper pipe, pots, coins and hope my goats would dose themselves, kinda like putting baking soda out to self medicate.

I don't want to contaminate any water because my other animals would probably drink it too - everyone free ranges inside the fence here.

Do they have a ppm on the mineral block for copper? It's about 2000-2600 ppm here.

What does that mean? Parts copper per million? The block comes without a label, but I looked it up on the manufacturers page now. Here are the contents, hope I translated correctly.

Copper as copper (II)sulfate 300 mg Cu/kg
Selenium as sodium selenite 30 mg Se/kg
Cobolt 20 mg Co/kg
Zink 120 mg Zn/kg
Manganese 150 mg Mn/kg
Iodine 50 mg I/kg
Iron 840 mg Fe/kg

I see now that they also produce a block with 2000 mg Cu/kg, I'll try to get that next time I'm at the feed store. Maybe they gave me the wrong one.

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

And she looks perfectly normal to me! Vicki

I don't have any good pictures to show her eyes, but they are not very prominent. But both me and another person have noticed without talking about it - the vet didn't say anything about it though, but he was busy and I forgot to ask (he was here to help her with retained afterbirth).

[Laverne]

I find this interesting. Here is a quote about myotonic goats and their trait of bulging eyes.

'yes: Many of these goats have eyes that appear to protrude from the socket "bug eyes". It is the structure of the bone that causes the eyes to look this way. The eyes are also wide apart and often more forward than other breeds'.

Look up Moonlight Farm, they have a pic of a bug eyed myotonic goat and mention it is a trait.

Is your doe young and her skull has just grown to make this trait come out in the last few months? Even though she may not be myotonic, maybe she just has that skull formation to make this happen.

[where I want to]

Re: copper boluses- the study I saw that convinced me that it was a useful thing was conducted in Sweden. That study mentioned it's use among farmers there. It is just small copper rods and I would think it would not be classified as a medicine.
The weed mentioned is not usually a problem in a pasture but in hay. Since you're in Norway, I assume you feed hay in the winter.
I have no idea whether there is this weed or something similar in European hay.
Also, since you are in a place outside of the usual for most of the posters here, you might want to post your location.

[southerngurl]

Originally Posted by Geiss

The blocks are very rich in copper and the reason they want it so red is so people won't make a mistake and give them to sheep.

Actually it's the iron oxide that makes the block red. Iron, in excessive amounts, ties up copper, which is why red minerals aren't usually the best. I read that they used to put the iron oxide in there so they could see when the minerals were well blended. It's really not needed.