Learn from this please

ozark_jewels · #1 05/02/10, 03:55 PM

I had a call in the middle of the night about a week ago from a very distressed friend. Her first doe of the season(quite a bit overweight) had started into labour 5 hours before, but after about an hour of off and on pushes had quit pushing. My friend decided it was a false labour and went to bed. She got up to check in the middle of the night and the doe was in bad shape trying to have kids that just wouldn't come. My friend checked with her fingers, but having little "going in" experience, couldn't tell what she was feeling. She called me and I threw on clothes and drove the 45 minutes to her house. So the doe had been in labour for at least 6 hours by the time I saw her.
The doe was extremely tired, stressed, and looked bad. I went in and found one kid with his backbone in the birth canal and a second kid with both feet jammed beside the backbone. They were jammed in there very tightly. After some manuvering, we got the first kid turned and brough out breech. The doe was just lying there, so I had to go in and deliver the remaining two kids as well. Both had to be repositioned. All three were large bucks. All three were alive, though very stressed.
We did everything we could for the doe, Banamine, calcium, Bo-Se, etc. She seemed to perk up a bit, but not for long and she died before the kids were 24hours old.
My friend is very upset over losing her favorite doe, and unfortunately, only has three bucks to show for it. A doe would have been nice.

Anyway.......My friend is learning the hard way as most of us have to(I certainly did!). But hopefully someone will read this and save themselves some heartache.

First off, don't let your goats get overweight!! Goats put on internal fat before external, so if you are seeing pudgy elbows, fat tailheads, etc, they already have unhealthy fat masses internally. These fat masses are unhealthy for the whole goat and make for reproductive problems, and just problems with the health of the entire animal. Fat animals are just more prone to issues.
And remember, rumen is not fat! A big barrel is a good thing on a ruminant. The fat behind the elbows, on the tail and over the ribs, that is a sign your goat is overweight. A big barrel does NOT equal fat.

Secondly, when a doe seems to go into labour and then stops: ALWAYS CHECK. If there is a kid positioned the wrong way, many times a does body will signal her to stop pushing for a time. But eventually, even if the kid hasn't been repositioned, her body must start pushing again and it is *very* hard on the doe and the kids if this isn't fixed in a timely manner. The earlier you catch it, the earlier you can help or get help from someone else. The earlier you fix the problem, the less likely you are to lose kids or more importantly, the doe.

So now, my friend is working on trimming her remaining does a bit and changing their management to better support a healthy rumen rather than excess fat.
And you can bet that after this experience, she is determined never to mistake a problem labour for false labour again.

Hopefully this experience will help someone else as well.

farmmom · #2 05/02/10, 04:02 PM

Thank you for posting this! I'm so sorry your friend had this problem, but sure am glad you were there to help. Hopefully it will save others the same heartache.

topside1 · #3 05/02/10, 05:22 PM

Thanks for giving up your time and posting the experience...Topside

kwagner21 · #4 05/02/10, 06:14 PM

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but do goats go into false labor? don't think i've heard mention of it before.

ozark_jewels · #5 05/02/10, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwagner21

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but do goats go into false labor? don't think i've heard mention of it before.

Maybe they look *to you* like they are in labour before they actually are?? But I have never seen a goat actually push and it be false.

rootsandwings · #6 05/02/10, 07:34 PM

mine has been stretching and arching and positioning kids for two days. yesterday she lost her mucus plug. A lot of that looks like "labor" except that it stops looking like labor ten minutes later when the goat wanders off to eat maple leaves. (laughing at me under her breath I'm sure.)

yarrow · #7 05/02/10, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

Maybe they look *to you* like they are in labour before they actually are?? But I have never seen a goat actually push and it be false.

I'm right there with Emily on this.. I've never had a doe really start to push and it be false. .. to go a bit further. I've never had a doe stretch, yawn & paw the pen floor, without pushing closely following.. to take it a little further.. I've NEVER had a doe really & truly *LOOSE* her ligaments and not go into full active labor/babies in LESS then 24 hours. I also NEVER let a doe labor much with out checking (if a doe does three good hard pushes and I'm not seeing at the very least a bubble or a big bulge, I will reach a couple finger up in and have a feel..if things feel in place, I will let her push a few more times, but most times I will at the very least get those front legs out and help move things along. (I know a lot of folks on here think that's not letting *nature* handle things, it's too invasive...maybe it is... but we kid out over 20 does a year. I've never had a kid stuck with just a head, or stuck with legs & no head.. or worse yet, two kids stuck in the birth canal (all things we see posted on here a lot) I've also never had a doe labor and work & push and push and finally deliver a baby that died during the wait..I've never had a stillborn baby, except a doe who I totally missed her kidding. I also really watch *and sometimes* begin to worry if I have a doe that is doing a lot of wall rubbing.. it usually signals that I'm probably going to have to do some rearranging to do (which is what the doe is trying to do when she's rubbing along the fence/walls)... around here, if it looks like labor..it's labor.. everyone has different ways of doings things.. I'm a very *involved* midwife LOL

susie, mo ozarks

hoofinitnorth · #8 05/02/10, 09:11 PM

EXCELLENT post, Emily. A lot of people equate feed with "love" and overfeed. They also sometimes assume that a pregnant goat is supposed to be fat. I also like the advice of always checking. So many people are afraid of going in or they are downright against it. I find a lot of things can be solved by at least palpating and seeing if the cervix is open and the position of the kid presenting. I'm very lucky to have been present for all 9 births this year so far. Glad your friend is turning around her management now. I wish her luck.

deineria · #9 05/02/10, 09:54 PM

I like this post because it reminds me I am not being cruel when I cut way back on our one doe's grain because she looked a little pudgy to me. Now she looks thin, but really, she is a healthy weight for a dairy goat now!

shiandpete.1 · #10 05/02/10, 10:10 PM

Great post Emily! Had a mom of a 4-Her call and ask why her doe had two stillborn babies...turns out she let the doe labor all day long, she went to work and came home and she still didn't have babies. Lucky all they lost were kids. Advice like this from someone who has raised goats for years like Emily is advice I love hearing!

Jcran · #11 05/02/10, 10:22 PM

We had a 4-Her call me a little over a week ago saying that her doe had finally gone into labor. I was up to my elbows in sushi rice and said I'd be over in an hour and to call me if the doe was pushing hard before then with no results. She said something to the effect of the goo having a lot of blood in it. So my gut told me that I should just go over for a few minutes (luckily they are just around the corner)...I watched that doe lie down and PUUUUUUSH-then the water broke- but with no resulting bulge after a few more HAAARD pushes...we set the timer on her watch for 15 minutes after which I was going to go in. After less than 6 minutes I just KNEW something was up. I washed up and went in, and there was that backbone that Emily just talked about. I've never had that before and it was not an easy birth but we did it. The doe finally delivered a breech presentation without legs out (JUST the tail) and then a breech and then a normal. If I had not had that gut feeling (there was A LOT of BRIGHT RED blood in the mucus-that was a new one for us as well) then I would have killed three beautiful doe kids and maybe mom all in the name of a sushi dinner. That poor mom was exhausted but did fine after some MFO and a few buckets of warm water/molasses/baking soda.