Could I have prevented this!!??

Laural H. · #1 04/25/10, 04:08 PM

Last night one of my NDs went into labor. She was a first freshner about 2 years old. The first baby came breach, the second came

head first, no legs out and got stuck in the canal. The doe tried for close to an hour to push the 2nd kid out with no success, then something I have NEVER seen, the third kid started to emerge on TOP of the 2nd kid. So I had two kids stuck in the canal. I called every vet in 100 miles, no one would help. Finally I called the Vet School in CO, the Dr walked me through how to shoot my doe and do an emergency C Section. Now, with 3 healthy kids, a dead doe who I loved dearly, I am asking what could I have done to prevent this!!!
I knew she was huge, should I have taken her to a vet last week?? I wonder if any one else has had something like this happen and if so how did you handle it?
Thanks.

**mygoat** · #2 04/25/10, 04:29 PM

I don't think you did anything wrong, per se. However, I would have pulled kids by going invasive before shooting the doe - not sure if you tried that? First, I would've pushed the 2nd and 3rd kid back in, slowly. Then, I would've felt around an found legs and pulled those forward. Did you go invasive and have no luck? It can be very confusing, especially with triplets or quads.

Sorry you lost your doe. We can only do our best, and you kept her from suffering.

LomahAcres · #3 04/25/10, 04:34 PM

You can't really know if it was preventable, we never do. Even when we do everything right, sometimes you still loose them.

When my does start into labor I go in right away, just a hand or few fingers to feel that the kid is in the correct position. It's a lot easier to fix before they get crammed into the canal and the doe is exhausted from pushing. The second kid was stuck and the third wasn't waiting. When you get a head with no legs, push it back in way down, find the front legs and bring them out. I never let a doe push more then 3 times in a row without progress before going in and checking.

Even if you had gone in and rearranged he still may have been too big for her to push out. I just went through this with my kinder doe who had quints, very large quints. The last was stuck, took 30 minutes of rearranging pushing a pulling to pop that kid out. Same thing - head first, but I felt inside and could tell before she came out and started rearranging right away. Doe was so tired we had her propped up on a hay bale with her tush in the air to help move the kid around inside.

Sorry for your loss

GoldenWood Farm · #4 04/25/10, 04:36 PM

Honestly you couldn't have prevented it I think. I have had this kind of thing happen with my does before. I haven't lost any but I have had very hard deliveries. One doe had two hard deliveries in a row. 1st time was she had triplets and one was in the wrong position so he was blocking his brother and sister. Problem was this doe is a short bodied doe and she carries 9lb kids so that equals trouble. 2nd time was VERY large dead buck kid which took me and my dad a hour to pull out with both of us pulling. I didn't think we where going to be able to get him out and I thought I was going to loose her and the other kid inside her.

I am so sorry this happened to you. You could have tried to shove the kids back in and rearrange things but I don't know how much room you had to work with. Sometimes things like this just happen and we can't do anything to change the outcome. With my doe I couldn't have done anything different to prevent what happened. She just has extra large kids even with triplets so this year I bred her mini so I won't have any problems. That is the only thing I could do to maybe help if something does go wrong I have more room.

We had a doe try to deliver two kids at once (my mom was the one assisting then I was at work) and thankfully they where mini kids so she was able to shove them back in and get them out one at a time. I am thankful you where able to save the kids in this situation. To many times I have heard where everyone is lost because they can't get the kids unstuck.

If this had been my doe I would have done everything possible to rearrange the kids and if that failed I would have done exactly what you did. Hugs to you <<<<hug>>>>

Justine

Laural H. · #5 04/25/10, 05:00 PM

I did try to push them back in and rearrange, the 2nd kid's legs were folded way back and all I could get a hold of was the shoulder, this doe had a very narrow pelvis, my hands and wrists are bruised from trying to push those kids back in. Even after I cut her open the kids were still stuck, it took two of us to push them back in and pull them from the opening I had made.
Thank you all for the advice, from now on I'm checking position of kids right off the bat!!
Are there any links to info on proper techniques for re-situating kids? I know I worked on her for a long time, and she was in a LOT of pain, she even passed out on one attempt.

betsy h. · #6 04/25/10, 05:05 PM

year ago, I had a pygmy doe with a very narrow pelvis- it looked like this- '\ /' - instead of this- '/ \'.

I tried to turn the kid and get legs and face out, but could not. the kid died and we had to take him out in pieces.

So, you did the best you could. I hope your babies stay strong and healthy.

Alice In TX/MO · #7 04/25/10, 05:24 PM

Good website with pics of abnormal delivery positions and what to do:

http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=285

Minelson · #8 04/25/10, 05:53 PM

I am so sorry for you

What an awful ordeal to go through...for you and mama goat

**mygoat** · #9 04/25/10, 05:53 PM

The fiasco farm has EXCELLENT picture demonstrations on how to assist births, too.

beccachow · #10 04/25/10, 06:56 PM

I am so sorry.

Goat Servant · #11 04/25/10, 07:28 PM

That must have been awful with those kids all tangled up, so sorry.
Should you have taken her to the vet the week prior? Honey you had no idea what you would be faced with until it happend.
If a doe doesnt present the 2nd kid in 5 or 10 minutes from the first she gets assistance.
Especially if she is pushing without progress.
A few months back I had one with front legs only; couldnt find the head. 2hrs later vet came & pulled him but he didnt make it.

Pony · #12 04/25/10, 07:55 PM

I'm no expert (only one kidding under my belt so far), but I know that you did the absolute best you could.

And the next time one of your does kids, you will once again do the absolute best you can.

I'm so terribly sorry you lost your doe, and that you had to go through the nightmare of delivering her after you euthanized her. That has to be so very painful, especially since you have the healthy kids there to remind you of your girl.

Berty · #13 04/26/10, 01:20 AM

I'm so sorry for your loss and what you and your doe had to go through. I applaud you for doing what needed to be done. I can imagine that was very difficult.
I had a kid in a bad position yesterday. The doe went through so much as we worked on turning the baby. I lost her this morning. It's so easy to wonder what you could have done differently. I just keep reminding myself that sometimes these things happen (as I sit here tearing up again!)
Good luck with your babies and hugs to you!

cmharris6002 · #14 04/26/10, 07:02 AM

I'm so sorry you lost your doe... Even very experienced goat keepers sometimes end up with a birthing situation they can't fix. You were brave enough do to the next thing, preform an emergency c-sec, and you saved all the kids!!
Good job

Christy

jBlaze · #15 04/26/10, 10:47 AM

I am very sorry for your loss. So glad that you were able to get live kids out!

iI am really starting to wonder though atbout Nigerians. I seem to be hearing more difficuls births from nigerians than from any other breed.

Pony · #16 04/26/10, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBlaze

I am very sorry for your loss. So glad that you were able to get live kids out!

iI am really starting to wonder though atbout Nigerians. I seem to be hearing more difficuls births from nigerians than from any other breed.

jBlaze, it could have been any of us with any breed. These things just happen, and while it may seem to be one breed more than another, I think it's just who's kidding when.

jBlaze · #17 04/26/10, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

jBlaze, it could have been any of us with any breed. These things just happen, and while it may seem to be one breed more than another, I think it's just who's kidding when.

Oh, no I didn't mean just this one!

Laural H. · #18 04/26/10, 12:48 PM

I want to thank every one for your words of encouragement, this whole thing would be soooo much harder without reassurance from others who have been through this! I have 4 more does due vary soon, thanks for helping me move forward!!!
Laural~

Pony · #19 04/26/10, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jBlaze

Oh, no I didn't mean just this one!

When I responded, I was thinking about what happened to Berty, too, and just thinking it was a sad coincidence. Hope it didn't look like I was jumping on you.

I'm very sorry to have caused you concern!

Pony · #20 04/26/10, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laural H.

I want to thank every one for your words of encouragement, this whole thing would be soooo much harder without reassurance from others who have been through this! I have 4 more does due vary soon, thanks for helping me move forward!!!
Laural~

Looking forward to GOOD news on the next 4 does.

{HUG}