Scours & I'm stumped-Help

[HappyFarmer]

I have a 3 month old doeling who is scouring-looser than normal pellets, soft, not liquidy. She has been like this for about 1 1/2 weeks.

She shows no signs of dehydration, has not lost weight, normal temp, clear eyes, nose, otherwise completely healthy. She was weaned 1 1/2 weeks ago (when we noticed the dirty-bottom/scours) and is penned with 2 wethers about the same age, who are perfectly healthy.

She is eating fine. She was offered cracked corn, alfalpha pellets, whole oats, sunflower seeds while with the herd & when she was penned up. When the scouring did not stop on Wedesday (3/17) we stopped all grain except alfalpha pellets. The whole herd looks great except her.

She has been wormed with Safequard 2x, Ivermec once, and had a 5-day round of Dimethox for cocci last day was Sunday (3/14).

I just performed a McMaster fecal. Clean as a whistle. I'm doing a regular floatation fecal as I type(new to mcmaster fecals performing this just to be sure)-will post the results when it is done. Added: Her floatation fecal was clear-only 1 cocci showed on the slide.

What can be wrong with this doeling???? Why isn't she firming up. She's supposed to go to her new home but I've already delayed that because she isn't 100%.

Please help me diagnose the cause of these loose stools.

HF

[Bearfootfarm]

Please help me diagnose the cause of these loose stools

She's not getting any "roughage"
She needs some hay in her diet

[HappyFarmer]

She has hay free choice, along with water. I thought I typed it but obviously I didn't.

I just had another thought, could this be e-coli or salmonella? Are these contageous? I'm wondering if I should start her on antibiotics, though there is no fever. Thoughts?
HF

[Backfourty,MI.]

Wouldn't E-coli or salmonella be a bacterial type infection? Without a fever it doesn't sound like infection. I hate to give antibiotics unless they are really needed or when you finally do need them for something then they are resistant to them.

My first thought would have been cocci. Have you tried giving her any Pepto Bismol? I would try that for a day or two & see if that helps. I can't imagine it's just from going without milk.
When I do my cocci treatments I do 3 treatments, at 3 weeks, 6 weeks and at 9 weeks.
You said the fecals look good though so I'm stumped too.
Hoping someone else helps out with other ideas for you.

[susanne]

i don't know were you are or what mineral requirements you have in your area.
copper deficiency can have loose poop or even diarrhea.
if this is not your problem, how is your weather? green coming out??????

[HappyFarmer]

I did give one dose (Wed eve) of Pepto, when we stopped the grain, thinking it would clear up quick if it was the grain. There was no effect. I did not repeat because I did not want to cover the symptoms, and she isn't (so far) showing symptoms of loss of fluid or weight loss, but it is only a matter of time. I'll start her on successive doses of Pepto, am & pm.

Weather is 70 today, 60's all week. Last weekend rain & 40's, nighttime temps ranging from 20-40(our normal temps this time of year). The weaning pen is in our barn, constant 50 degrees. Let out into outside larger pen on nice days-used only in spring for weaning so no leftover cocci/worm issues there. Inside pen cleaned every 3-days, air dryed, and otherwise deep bedding in between. She was out in the pasture exposed to the elements (with shelter of course) before they all came into the barn for weaning which should have only been 1 week.

Just saw her poop again, this time no visible berry-more like a thick paste. Fecal material this morning had a few slight though loose berry like particles. I just gave her more probios.

Oh, she has had her first cd/t, if that matters in this case. She is awaiting the allotted time for her 2nd shot. Dams were vaccinated in Nov.

We're in CT.

HF

[Backfourty,MI.]

susanne mentioned that copper deficiency can also cause the runny poo, do they have access to a good loose mineral with a high copper content in it?

[HappyFarmer]

No loose mineral in the weaning pen. 1 1/2 weeks ago yes-meatmaker loose minerals I think it's 1700 ppm.

Blood draws show no copper deficiency in the herd but symptoms show otherwise, so we supplement. Bolusing brings the tails back temporarily. Dams were bolused but not the kids.

HF

[Backfourty,MI.]

I'm not familiar with meatmaker mineral is it red in color? I use to use a red loose cattle mineral & I think it had something like 2300 or 2500 ppm's of copper in it & I still had to bolus my goats. I switched to Cargill brand "Right Now Onyx" which is black or dark gray in color & haven't had to bolus since. Something to do with the kind of copper in the mierals & how goats absorb it. They absorb the black mineral betters & get more from it. Also high iron content in your water can keep certain things from absorbing or not absorbing in there systems as well.

[HappyFarmer]

It's a red mineral. I tried the dark mineral once-they did not touch it at all - smelled like pepper actually. I ended up using it in the garden after several months of offering it. I don't recall the name it was several years ago.

HF

[dkdairygoats]

Cargill's Right Now Onyx is a very good mineral...I know of lots of goat herds on it. My goats like it, anyway.

Was she just weaned? A feed change can cause this, and if she looks good, not losing weight, etc, time can take care of it. Sounds like she is already improving.

If she were my kid, I would deworm her with moxidectin (Cydectin pour-on for cattle given orally at 1 cc/22 lbs).

[HappyFarmer]

I started the doeling on the Pepto and will dose regularly.

I added minerals to their feeder, and all 3 went at them. They were hitting them hard. They've been without them for 1 1/2 weeks.

If this is the problem, how long do you imagine it might be until the stools return to pellets?

Yes she was just weaned-1 2/2 weeks ago. At first I had thought that might be the problem. Would symptoms linger this long?

Her fecals were clean-no worms at all in the field of vision.

Any other thoughts are welcome.

HF

[Backfourty,MI.]

I would think the feed change would have worked itself out but I'm not sure. See how she is in a day or 2 after the minerals free choice & giving her some Pepto bismol. Hopefully she'll start getting more berry type poo.
Also Alfafa hay will sometimes make my goats berries stick together if they have alot, I wonder if straight alfafa hay might help tighten up her stools. Just a thought & I don't think it could hurt her? Maybe add a little alfafa hay with what kind of hay she's getting?
Just an idea, don't know if it will work.

[Goat Servant]

Now that she & her friends have inhaled the loose minerals it will be interesting to see if the other young uns get a little runs too; sometimes my young uns will over eat them & get the runs for a couple days.
A couple of days of pepto always clears it up but this was not the original cause of your doe's runs.
A puzzle for sure what with no worms.

[HappyFarmer]

HA! Whoever said a goats digestive system is fast & they poop every 15 minutes hasn't observed MY doeling. 4 hours yesterday & no poops. Unusual. I wonder if she isn't just a nervous nellie. Yesterday morning she did have a slightly dirty behind so as of yesterday there was no improvement.

Today I'll pen her in a stall on concrete or she'll become my shadow until I can observe the poops.

HF

[Backfourty,MI.]

How's the little gal's poop's tonight?

[HappyFarmer]

Last night she had pellets! Solid & black as they should be.

The pellets were in a string, though. I'll dose her one more time with Pepto then just observe-hopefully the pellets will remain firm.

HF

[Backfourty,MI.]

Thank Goodness they are now forming berries but just stumped what has caused her so much problem with her poo.