O.K., pretend you know NOTHING about having goats

[GBov]

And you have me lol

But as I have wanted goats from the age of 6 gosh darn it, THIS year I am getting some goats!!!

Well, getting to pet the baby Nigerian cross at the livestock market sort of fired me up to just do it, instead of wishing so am now working on my cunning plan but I need some help from all you goat-a-holics.

My area is 50 by 30 ft and am planning to get three Nigerian Dwarf Dairy goats. Having three kids, they are going to get one each. Oooooo, cant wait for that day to see their little faces.

Now, being down if Florida keeping them cool is important so, while there is a big oak tree in their pen area its tall instead of wide, I will be putting a grape arbor over three sides of the pen. 8' high and 10 ft wide with the plants growing up OUTSIDE and a ft away from the fence. It should give cover and shade without them being able to hurt or reach the grapes. Is a 4' fence over the top with small goats like Nigerians or could I make it 3' instead? 3' would save heaps of money but them getting out could be a total disaster so would rather spend to keep them safe but if I dont have to, well, any money saved with the construction goes into the goats.

The house is going to be open on three sides and 8' by 4'. Is that big enough for three Nigies? And should I put a bench for them to sleep on or would they like the ground better. The ground is pure sand.

I have 20' of oak log from a tree we had to take down and was going to cut it into lengths and stack (and coach bolt!) them into different heights, like balance beams. Will they like that? And what other play things will they like? Its not a big enough area for them to find their fun so I am going to have to make it for them. Any ideas more than welcome!

Food. What do they eat? Have been reading about hay and alfalfa pellets and my brain is going gently round and round already. I know the pros to pellets are that they are easy to store, easy to get year round and no changes of quality or the chance of getting to the middle of a bag and finding it musty, unlike a hay bale can sometimes be. But hay smells so nice and is more natural so which is better for them? And do they need grain? How much per day per goat and what kind?

Brouse. At the moment I have oak trees, saw palmetto, popcorn trees (no idea the proper name but the birds LOVE the bright white seeds) an evergreen tree that smells like marzipan when you break a branch and not much else and not much room to plant things for them. Was planning to do sunflowers as a cut and come again for them but what else can I plant for them? And is there anything I can grow for year round brouse?

So, just imagine you are doing it all from scratch and know nothing and let the information flow

[thaiblue12]

No a 3 foot fence would not work. They can easily scale it. They would love the balance beams but make sure it is nowhere near the fence or the house or you will find them out of on top.

Everyone feeds differently. I cannot tell you the right way to feed in Florida. I can tell you that grain is not needed unless they are pregnant, milking or cold in the winter time. Wethers never need it but my boys do steal some from the does My bucks get it in the winter time same as the does.
I feed two parts alfalfa pellets to one part grain and use grass hay. That works for me but not sure if that will work for you and your area.

Minerals, loose not blocks are very important so make sure you get one with a high copper content and not a ton of salt. I use cow minerals as goat is not available here and horse minerals or super expensive.

Browse well they love it but they will also strip your trees of bark so you might want to put something around them to keep the goats from killing them.

In the Summer I check on their water 2 to 3 times a day to make sure they have enough and it is not hot or dirty. The wind blows here something nasty at times and if dirt of sand is in it you can forget about them drinking it.

They love to have a dirt pit so if your soild is sandy they will live it. Mine dig at it to make it soft and then lay in it.

[deineria]

I think small goats could get by with a 3 foot fence it you do a line of electric at the top, and otherwise, I'd stick with 4. I haven't had any issues with any of my goats getting out of basic field fence or goat/cattle panels. The fair better in warm weather than cold, in my experience. As long as they have shade, they will be fine.
They will, as thaiblue12 said, kill your trees by eating the bark. If you don't want that to happen, put fence around and as far up as they will be able to reach as adults.

In such a small area, they will eat all the browse quickly, so you will just have to stick with feeding plenty of hay and giving grain.
I put my feed mix in the other post you have and other info. that might be helpful.

Be sure to buy from a reliable breeder that tests for CAE and such - I'd look over the mother for old possible CL scars or current lumps.

[mygoat]

Yup, electric at the lower level and also above will likely work fine.

The biggest advice I can give is to research CL, CAE, and Johne's and buy from clean herds. Otherwise, there's a good chance you're setting yourself up for heartbreak, as well as contaminating their pasture and housing for many years. Research feed, housing, diseases, and find a good goat vet. Theyre harder to find than you might think.

Oh, and get a couple good goat books.

[Tallabred]

Hmmm - I think that you need some Florida Nubians! Hint Hint

[Pony]

To start, Mygoat is on the money: Make sure you buy from tested, clean herds. Too many folks have suffered the heartbreak and financial loss from buying infected goats. Go with someone who has a good reputation, and be sure they've tested THIS YEAR. (Had a gal try to put one over on a friend who was looking for a goat, and it just goes to show ya: there are some really unethical folks out there!)

And then, I second what Tallabred said. NUBIANS! If you're in for a penny, may as well be in for a pound. LOL!

[GBov]

Originally Posted by Tallabred

Hmmm - I think that you need some Florida Nubians! Hint Hint

Space, space my dear! 50' by 30' wouldnt fit three Nubians, would it?

Originally Posted by Pony

To start, Mygoat is on the money: Make sure you buy from tested, clean herds. Too many folks have suffered the heartbreak and financial loss from buying infected goats. Go with someone who has a good reputation, and be sure they've tested THIS YEAR. (Had a gal try to put one over on a friend who was looking for a goat, and it just goes to show ya: there are some really unethical folks out there!)

And then, I second what Tallabred said. NUBIANS! If you're in for a penny, may as well be in for a pound. LOL!

I was costing from Craigs list but would rather go with a good SAFE breeder. These are going to be kids pets FIRST so health is a huge issue.

So is price though

What would a nanny and two doelings cost? Is it even poss. to get that combo? An older nanny would do quite well so an ex dairy girl would be great. Are there any dairies that use Nigerians? In Florida? Or is that asking for waaaaaaay to much cake?

The ordinances for our neighborhood forbids all hoofed stock but Nigerians are sooooo small and sooooooo cute and sooooo *whispers* useful that we are going to risk it. If we get busted they will go live with my brother and we will visit them often but so far the neighborhood is quiet, the place I Have chosen is as far from surrounding houses as poss., behind the neighbors shed and between our two sheds so will be hidden and the grape arbor will further shroud and hide them.

I was going to wait for a year or two more till we might be able to afford a bit of land but nope, not going to wait any more! Have waited over 30 years already! Life is risk and with a back up plan in place its time for goats

[Oat Bucket Farm]

Lamancha's might be a good choice if you are trying to keep them from being noticed. They are very quiet so I have heard. Nubians are great and are my favorite breed, but you can't hide them. They have loud voices and many opinions. I don't think any dairies use ND.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by GBov

What would a nanny and two doelings cost? Is it even poss. to get that combo? An older nanny would do quite well so an ex dairy girl would be great. Are there any dairies that use Nigerians? In Florida? Or is that asking for waaaaaaay to much cake?

Prices are dependent on your location and on which breeders are in your area.

One of my neighbors got some very nice stock through Craig's List, though. (and Wintrrwolf is a pro at Craig's List!)

As the amount of milk is rather negligible, I doubt that any dairies use Nigerians. I could always be wrong, but that's my thought.

No matter if you get an older doe or a younger one with a doeling on her, remember that goats are herd animals and you need to have at least a couple of them, or you will have very unhappy goats.

My first two goats were a doe in milk (Many Troubles) and a buckling (Beaux Tie). Once Trub was bred and advancing in her pregnancy, I picked up a Pygmy wether (Clark) to keep Beaux company.

When Trub freshens (oh, please, God, soon...) I will have at least two more goats here. I'm hoping for all doelings, as it seems that there is a market here for solid, healthy goats.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by Oat Bucket Farm

Lamancha's might be a good choice if you are trying to keep them from being noticed. They are very quiet so I have heard. Nubians are great and are my favorite breed, but you can't hide them. They have loud voices and many opinions. I don't think any dairies use ND.

LOL! That's the nicest description of Nubians I've ever read. "Loud voices and many opinions..." LOL!

Of course, that's just the does. The bucks, meh. The only time I hear from Beaux is if something is dreadfully wrong. And he has such a sweet, dulcet voice -- compared to Trub, anyway!

[Wags]

The amount of milk is NOT negligible!!!! And there are ALL NIGERIAN dairies. They have the highest average butter fat average of all DAIRY goat breeds and cheese makers are discovering they get more cheese per pound of milk with Nigerian milk.

This is a Nigerian Dwarf dairy doe - she peaks at 3/4 of a gallon a day on once a day milking. I have one of her daughter's (and a son) who as a first freshener last year avg 1/2 gallon a day for SEVEN months on once a day milking. I fully expect she will follow in her dam's footsteps and am looking forward to seeing her milk production this year.

If you are planning to milk them and keep any kids, then you probably want to start with just two or you will VERY quickly find yourself out of space. Buy from disease free herds and from folks that actually milk their goats. Some Nigerian breeders breed only for the pet market, so you have to ask questions and get SPECIFIC answers. Just because a doe can raise triplets doesn't mean she is a good milk goat. And "nice capacity" doesn't tell you a thing.

Also check out this forum for Niggie fanciers: http://nigeriandwarfgoats.ning.com/

My goats have pasture - so I don't feed anything my alfalfa pellets unless it is extremely cold outside. I have not fed my Niggies any grain at all, but I may start offering them a little on the milk stand this year. Once nice thing about the pellets is less waste - so you get more for your money. You can raise them on just pellets, but grass hay would be a nice edition to make up for the lack of browse.

[qwerty]

You might try in the Florida Market Bulletin. It comes out monthly online and has a variety of items in Florida.

[ozark_jewels]

The reason *most* dairies wouldn't use Nigerians(including me when I was running the goat dairy), is that unless you are an ALL Nigerian dairy, the size difference can make it difficult to run the minis and standards together in large herds. Management and sizing things for all goats together can be a problem with such widely varying sizes.
A good Nigie can give quite a good account of herself in the milk pail. I stress *good* Nigie. There are a lot that are bred more for pets.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by Wags

The amount of milk is NOT negligible!!!!

<ducking, running for cover>

Don't hit me!!!!

I'm sorry that I offended you and your breed! I was only going on my experience with my neighbor's Nigerians. Obviously, I was terribly wrong, and I shall take 40 lashes with some lovely alfalfa hay...

[Wags]

Nothing personal Pony, unfortunately I have seen far to many folks in this forum make disparaging remarks about the Nigerians milking capabilities. And your experience with your neighbors is not uncommon - that is why I stress buying from folks that actually milk.

[GBov]

Originally Posted by Pony

<ducking, running for cover>

Don't hit me!!!!

I'm sorry that I offended you and your breed! I was only going on my experience with my neighbor's Nigerians. Obviously, I was terribly wrong, and I shall take 40 lashes with some lovely alfalfa hay...

LOL

I promised my three kids (over two years ago) that I would get them a baby goat each so am trying to keep my promis to them. I am wondering who I can convince that the nanny is just a big baby? Most likely my 4 year old could be convinced

Are Nigerians noisy? And would 4 be one too many for a 30x50 foot space?

[Pony]

Originally Posted by Wags

Nothing personal Pony, unfortunately I have seen far to many folks in this forum make disparaging remarks about the Nigerians milking capabilities. And your experience with your neighbors is not uncommon - that is why I stress buying from folks that actually milk.

Ah, I didn't take it personally. If I had, I'd have either been a bit snippy, or I'd have pm'd you.

As it is, I was wrong, and I appreciate you setting me straight. (I have to admit, though, we're almost out of alfalfa hay, and I just couldn't spare any with which to whup myself. And the pellets just didn't have the same effect...)

Originally Posted by GBov

LOL

I promised my three kids (over two years ago) that I would get them a baby goat each so am trying to keep my promise to them. I am wondering who I can convince that the nanny is just a big baby? Most likely my 4 year old could be convinced

Are Nigerians noisy? And would 4 be one too many for a 30x50 foot space?

How old is your eldest child? Depending on age, and especially if it's a girl-child, you may be able to convince her that SHE gets the mother doe because she is the most responsible.

I'm not going to answer any more Nigerian questions b/c I don't want to get smacked again.

[Wonderland]

Originally Posted by GBov

Are Nigerians noisy? And would 4 be one too many for a 30x50 foot space?

I have Nigies, and I LOVELOVELOVE them. Mine are only noisy when they they know it's feeding time. Then they have pretty big mouths for such small goats. I don't mind it, though. You learn to tell each goat's voice apart, and it's not an annoying sound.

I would personally go with the 4' fencing. Even if the Nigies would stay in 3', I would be afraid something else (like a large dog) would come over the fence.

As for your other measurements, I simply cannot see things in my head based on measurements. I have to actually SEE things, so I'm no help there.

I think the others here have pretty much covered everything.

Oh, around here, good quality Nigie does go for $300-500.

[GBov]

Originally Posted by Pony

Ah, I didn't take it personally. If I had, I'd have either been a bit snippy, or I'd have pm'd you.

As it is, I was wrong, and I appreciate you setting me straight. (I have to admit, though, we're almost out of alfalfa hay, and I just couldn't spare any with which to whup myself. And the pellets just didn't have the same effect...)


How old is your eldest child? Depending on age, and especially if it's a girl-child, you may be able to convince her that SHE gets the mother doe because she is the most responsible.

I'm not going to answer any more Nigerian questions b/c I don't want to get smacked again.

I love my kids lol I just asked my eldest (boy of 8) which he would like, a baby or a grown up goat that gives milk. "A baby goat, cause baby goats are soooooo cute!" Same question to my 4 year old got "A grown up goat cause it gives milk and I can play with his baby goat!"

Well, if only all my problems were so easily sorted lol

Havnt even bothered asking darling daughter, it must be small, cute and named Princess

Am glad of teh quantities info as its dairy thats the real reason behind my wnating goats, well, that and more things for my kids to be handy with. I can use figures like that for costing all this out. A gallon of milk cost x, feed and hay cost y, kids going to petting zoo costs z = goats worth having. Well, it all has to work cost wise for the mister anyway

[Pony]

Originally Posted by GBov

Am glad of teh quantities info as its dairy thats the real reason behind my wnating goats, well, that and more things for my kids to be handy with. I can use figures like that for costing all this out. A gallon of milk cost x, feed and hay cost y, kids going to petting zoo costs z = goats worth having. Well, it all has to work cost wise for the mister anyway

Don't forget to figure the cost of the goat milk as what you'd be paying at market. Pure, "free-range" goat's milk is a lot more expensive than that off-the-shelf factory cow stuff.

Remind your darling husband of how much healthier the milk is for the family, and how the life lessons your children are learning from caring for the goats are absolutely priceless!