I got scared and induced today

KatieJJ · #1 03/12/10, 04:36 PM

I am the newbie whose prego goat is driving her crazy. I talked to the breeder again who insists that she is correct on the dates- meaning Rosie was due Feb. 26th. I have been checking Rosie for four straight weeks, thinking it would be any day. The babies felt strong four weeks ago by their vigorous kicks. Nothing had changed today with Rosie as far as showing signs of impending labor, and I just didn't feel comfortable letting her go another weekend to see if she would go into labor naturally. I picked my goats up on October 13th, and I think it is HIGHLY unlikely that Rosie isn't overdue by now. She stayed at the breeder's from Sept. 2nd until Oct. 13th.

There are no bucks anywhere near our property, so I know she didn't get pregnant after returning from the breeder. Rosie went into obvious heat and would back up to anyone and anything, so I don't see how it is possible for her not to be overdue. She didn't get bred on the last day she was there- it was Mama Goat who they were having trouble breeding. (She did not take.)

I hope I made the right decision. I was getting extremely worried that the goat's body, as a first freshener, was not kicking into gear like it's supposed to. I know human babies can die in utero if left to go over two weeks past the due date, and I don't want to take that chance. The vet didn't have "Lute" which is what I asked for. He gave us Oxytocin- is that the same thing? I know what Oxytocin does- it is the same thing they use to induce women (brand name is Pitocin.) But I had never heard of the lutylase (spelling?)

She got the shot at 1:30 this afternoon. The vet didn't feel dexamethasone was necessary after I gave him the history. So how soon should I go set up my camping spot in the barn?

KatieJJ · #2 03/12/10, 04:40 PM

BTW, they did not let her "run with the buck." They put her in the pen for a supervised breeding, and the breeder is still insisting she was bred Sept. 29. Then they removed her from the buck's pen.

shiandpete.1 · #3 03/12/10, 04:47 PM

Hopefully all goes well! According to my bottle of oxytocin it will help induce labor but if her cervix is not ready it may or may not help it dialate. Watch her closely and if she is straining too much with no results you may need the vet back. Go Rosie, I am cheering for you!

susanne · #4 03/12/10, 05:03 PM

double post

susanne · #5 03/12/10, 05:05 PM

to give a doe oxytocin before the cervix is open can lead into serious trouble.
worst case doe will bleed to death because the is pushing her kids against the cervix and it will tear.
this would not have ben my choice of doing this. how much oxytocin did he give?
good luck

KatieJJ · #6 03/12/10, 05:23 PM

2cc Oxytocin- Is there something I can do now to help the cervix dilate? I know they have gel to apply to women to soften the cervix. My hubby is out in the barn right now hanging a hammock for me to sleep in the barn tonight.

KatieJJ · #7 03/12/10, 05:41 PM

OMG I just read some really scary stuff about Oxytocin to induce goats. It is NOT the same as Lutalyse. I just read the difference. One is a prostaglandin to chemically cause the same process as natural labor to occur (Lutalyse), while Oxytocin is used to induce contractions in a doe whose cervix is ALREADY dilated!

What can I do now? (I am freaking out and waiting for a return call from my vet)

yarrow · #8 03/12/10, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KatieJJ

OMG I just read some really scary stuff about Oxytocin to induce goats. It is NOT the same as Lutalyse. I just read the difference. One is a prostaglandin to chemically cause the same process as natural labor to occur (Lutalyse), while Oxytocin is used to induce contractions in a doe whose cervix is ALREADY dilated!

What can I do now? (I am freaking out and waiting for a return call from my vet)

Where are you located? maybe one of us with LUTE & DEX on hand... .maybe close enough to help you... I'm so sorry this is happening to you & your doe. (most vets know less about goats then the avg. goat owner does.. but most will never admit that & just treat hit or miss)

susie, mo ozarks

betsy h. · #9 03/12/10, 05:54 PM

Oxytocin usually wears off pretty quickly- after kidding it will help the milk let down and she can pass her after birth more easily.

The vet has your answer, but see if he will give you a shot of Lute to help her dialate- or if you want to use an old midwife's trick, get a few capsules of Evening Primrose and do a pelvic on her while rubbing the fluids from the capsules on her cervix. It has natural prosteglandins so it should help her dialate.

susanne · #10 03/12/10, 05:59 PM

obviously the vet knew not much. and this is very politely said.
2cc is for cattle dosage.
i have no idea what is does in a doe that has not started labor.
katie you might want to join dairygoatforum.com. kaye will help.
in the meantime, watch your doe and if she starts pushing, go in and help with your fingers to dilate the cervix.

southerngurl · #11 03/12/10, 06:16 PM

Kaye is not on dairygoatinfo.com anymore, think she is on dairygoatforum.com

LaManchaPaul · #12 03/12/10, 06:23 PM

Katie, we are rooting for you and Rosie...

Let us know as soon as you can what's happening. You haven't posted since Yarrow asked where you live. Hope that you are near someone on HT.

KatieJJ · #13 03/12/10, 06:24 PM

I am in Ripley, TN, one hour north of Memphis, and 30 minutes south of Dyersburg, TN along HW 51. If anyone can help, let me know.

I just drove to the vet's to see if I could get Lute, but the other vet has it on large animal rounds. He is supposed to go home after he is done, but I am trying to get him to call me. He is the one who told us to give the Oxytocin.

The other vet who I just talked to (at the clinic) looked it up and said the half-life is only 22 minutes in goats, so it has already been metabolized and whatever it is going to do has been done. He basically said if the babies are OK and she is not in labor, then the babies will still be OK and she's not going to go into labor.

I am going out to the barn right now to check on the babies with my stethescope. If any of you know anyone in my area, I am willing to drive, even a long way, to get some Lutalyse right now tonight. The vet who is out on calls isn't calling back- I left a message- and they have no prostaglandin gels at the clinic.

Pony · #14 03/12/10, 06:38 PM

Katie, do you have an M.D. or nurse friend? If so, maybe you could get the human product (prostaglandin gel).

Do you have a Walmart in the area? I know that they carry evening primrose oil.

deineria · #15 03/12/10, 06:43 PM

When our doe retain the placenta, our vet gave oxytocin and it did nothing to help her expel and didn't even give her obvious contractions. The Lutalyse he gave the next afternoon did the trick in no time. . .so I hope the oxytocin just has no effect rather than a negative effect.

KatieJJ · #16 03/12/10, 06:51 PM

I don't have any labor and delivery nurse friends in this area. I can go to Wal- Mart, but I don't think that will be necessary now. The oxytocin was given over five hours ago, and it's not going to do any damage by now if it hasn't already.

The great news is: the babies are OK!!!

I am very happy to report vigorous kicking and no palpable contractions when I just went out and checked. Rosie seems perfectly content and is acting like nothing's happening. Her bag looks ever so slightly bigger.

Tomorrow I am going back to my vet to ask for the Lute since I still think it is the right thing to induce- just with the right drug!

If any of you live close by or even a fair drive away, I will drive to your place and pay top dollar for 2cc of Lute!

I will continue to update and am still planning on sleeping in the barn- just in case.

dm9960 · #17 03/12/10, 07:37 PM

oh my, I hope all goes well. It's tough when you turn to a vet and they know less than you do.

KatieJJ · #18 03/12/10, 08:01 PM

The weird thing for me is that our vet- the very same one who told me to give the Oxytocin- is excellent with all our other animals. We are relatively new goat owners- less than two years- with only the two does. Never really been a health issue with them except one time when Rosie had some eye drainage and coughing and he gave me four days of Penicillin to give her. It worked fine. I had no reason to doubt his advice. He is well-liked and respected for his knowledge in this area and has over twenty years experience. He is a large and small animal vet. Every farmer around uses him.

He has been one hundred percent correct on every.single.situation before when I have consulted him. When my horse was ill, he stopped in the middle of his clinic day to come out to my house immediately. He was here in less than ten minutes from the time I called. He told me, correctly, that she wouldn't live through the night.

He saved my dog's life when she tore her GI tract up after getting ahold of some hoof trimmings after the farrier came. She had a severe GI bleed that lasted four days and he supplied and talked me through every step of caring for her. She made it through with his help and medications/ IV fluids/ etc. while letting me keep her at home and care for her myself since his practice doesn't have someone on-site overnight.

He has correctly diagnosed distemper without a lab test in a shelter dog I brought to him. The dog lived, and I later insisted on the expensive lab test to verify the diagnosis the vet made by only a physical exam. It was distemper.

He correctly diagnosed two other shelter puppies with scabies when another vet said it was "puppy rash" and would go away as they got older- he did this by physical exam first, then verified it with a skin scraping because I wanted him to do the scraping.

I love this vet because he is inexpensive and very good. He doesn't insist on tests if he believes he knows what it is- he just tells you what he thinks it is and then treats. He doesn't do an x-ray if there isn't treatment for what you suspect is wrong. He is very low-tech. He allows me to have more animals than I would otherwise be able to afford. He has never made a single mistake or mis-diagnosis in all the years I have known him with me or any of the clients I know who use him.

Even if he made a bad call this time, I cannot imagine using anyone else in this area. He is definitely the only choice here. (The other vet in practice with him is an idiot- I have many stories about him.) That is it for our county. Dr. Idiot or my doc- whom I have grown to trust implicitly.

I will just have to rely on this site and the other site you all have recommended for my goat advice, I guess. Because after reading what I read about oxytocin, I DO NOT think that was the right drug to give in Rosie's case.

As far as finding out my vet might not be everything I thought he was: Well, I kind of feel like a kid who just found out Santa Claus isn't real.

Shocked, saddened, disappointed, a bit angry- but I will still love the IDEA of him. It's like Santa took his costume off and I found out he is just a man.

That's how I felt about my vet before tonight...

jill.costello · #19 03/12/10, 08:16 PM

Your vet sounds like an absolute donkey's rear. I'm so glad she didn't rupture her uterus, and that you were brave enough to keep calling and questioning him, good for you!

betsy h. · #20 03/12/10, 08:18 PM

A vet would not have Evening Primrose! A health food store will, and maybe WalMart, would have them. They are packaged for human use. Two or three would help out and soften the cervix.

It is good you are doing this because when you do a pelvic, you will be able to tell if her cervix is soft or if it is hard- hard will likely go into 'ringwomb' if she has not softened up and wants to push- and that sometime requires a c-sec if you cannot manipulate the cervix to get it open.