Milking through - increase in production

[Alice In TX/MO]

I only have four years of experience, and we've milked through twice with two different does. But, we've seen this effect twice, so I thought I'd throw it out there for discussion.

This time, we are milking through a LaMancha doe. She was making 1/2 gallon per day steadily, which is more than enough for our use and some to share with family.

Two days ago, our Mini-Mancha gave birth.

Last night, I realized the LaMancha's evening milk was not going to fit in a quart jar.

This morning she gave a quart and a half.

I realize there could be other factors. We've actually had sun for three days - first time this winter! Also, the days are getting longer.

Could it be that the pheromones of birth and early lactation of one doe affects the doe I'm milking through, thus increasing her production?

I'll love to see what you all think.

[Cheribelle]

Based on "personal" experience, I would say, very possibly. I know when I was nursing my son, another baby crying would sometimes give me that "full" feeling.

[issylthesthlia]

We know that humans hormonally regulate together-- for example, women who spend significant time together tend to cycle and get their periods at the same time. Studies also suggest that non-pregnant women increase in fertility while around a lactating woman. It would make sense to me that it would be true for animals as well.

With so many stories out there of does stealing the kids of FF I kind of wonder if it's nature's way of ensuring that some babies will survive...

[saanengirl]

I'm not sure if it is the effect of the other doe, but I do know that does respond to increasing day length and warmth by increasing milk production. Whether or not you had another doe kid, you should start to see an increase in the milk production in your doe who is milking through. By May she should be back up to what she was producing last year, or at least close to that amount.

[canadiangirl]

That's pretty interesting...I have a doe who is freshening in a few weeks and I am thinking of milking her through. I would be interested in hearing how her milk compares this year to last.

[desertshi]

When we say milk through, are we talking about milking continuously without re-breeding? Or are you saying that you didn't allow her to dry up before freshening again?

In the colder months animals have to use more energy to stay warm. In the warmer days more of their bodies energy can go into making milk I would think!

[mpillow]

to me...
milking thru---milking thru pregnancy
milking on---milking beyond 10m without breeding

Here in Maine...my milking on does have increased as warmer temps. some are bred now to kid in May/June....2 have recently kidded (no FF's)

my milkers on and possibly bred are producing at 25% typical VOLUME

[mahafakir]

First of all let me say that Phermones and Harmones are two different things. Phermones affect the sexual desire. Hormones affect the amount of milk an animal will produce and you can take from her. Actually there are two hormones involved. One hormone determines how much milk the animal will produce. The more this horomone the more the milk the animal will produce. The less the hormone the less the milk the animal will produce. This milk is not in free form. This hormone starts getting secreted when the animal gives birth. It is all soaked up in the sponge lilke tissue in the udder. You can't get any of this milk without the second hormone. This second hormone starts a reaction in the udder. The tissue starts expanding and contracting. It is like you have a wet water soaked cloth and you wring this cloth and water comes out of the cloth. This hormones starts getting secreted when you stimulate the udder of the goat or the cow. Massage the teats, squeeze the udder. Have you ever seen a kid or a calf at work. It keeps on giving shoves into the udder. That makes the system release the hormone.

Now when you say once your doe did not quite give a quart and other times the goat gave one and a half quart there are several reasons for it. For some reasons the doe decided that she would drive you away from her teats and you were not persistent. You moved away instead of adopting measures to get her to continue to be milked. I've seen it happen on You tube again and again. If the goat gets fidgety the milker just moves away. The secomd reason is that for some reason the release of the second hormone got interrupted. Most of the time it is the fault of the milker.

But whatever the reason Yoou can go back to the goat after a few minutes like fifteen or thirty minutes and start stimulating the udder. I saw a video on You tube. Two girls are sitting and one is milking the goat. After she is done the other girl starts squeezing her udder. I guess she likes the squeezing the udder until the goat would not let her near. So you have to watch what you are doing. You have to recognize how much the goat will take.

I've written in my comments how to get the goats to let you milk her. It is important that you should know how to milk. If after fifteen minutes the massaging of the teats and squeezing of the udder would not make more milk come out then the goat is done.

Actually this is also not correct. I'm talking in relative terms. The goat isconstantly producing milk and you can keep on getting the milk out by working on her udder and teats. Only the milk will be in weaker and weaker streams. You just have to recognise when the goat is done. I'm used to calling goat. Every body here calls doe. But I mean the same thing. A female goat.

I hope I have answered your question. Next time your doe gives only a quart of milk go back to her for the remaining half a quart.

Mahafakir

[Alice In TX/MO]

You have absolutely no idea about my goat, my milking, and made some wild and crazy assumptions.

The words are PHEROMONE and HORMONE.

I respectfully recommend that you spend less time on You Tube.

Pheromones affect many more things that sexual response.

From Wikipedia-
A pheromone (from Greek φέρω phero "to bear" + hormone from Greek ὁρμή - "impetus") is a secreted or excreted chemical factor that triggers a social response in members of the same species. Pheromones are hormones capable of acting outside the body of the secreting individual to impact the behavior of the receiving individual. There are alarm pheromones, food trail pheromones, sex pheromones, and many others that affect behavior or physiology.

[mahafakir]

You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. You have created whole new classes of phermones without even knowing what they are. For those who want to know they are secreted through the under arm persiperation. You can suppress them by using antiprespirants. Some humans are responsive to the persipiration odor of some humans and not to the odor of other persons perspiration. May be your goats milk contains persipiration. Thanks for telling me. I'd not drink your goats milk. It does not matter much to me.

[mahafakir]

Where did you get the idea that you can get a Ph.D degree by reading Wikipedia. Wikipedia is written by fools, for the fools. And It is saying about the same thing that I said. Only you do not know what the writer means. The writer did not tell you how the phermones are secreted. Read some biology books, read sex books. By the way Wikipedia is fraud. It is written basically by people who want to spread worms and virus to your computer. It takes money from ZEDO and others who want to sell the products of their customers. So next time you quoote from a known College prodessor and not from an Idiot Wikipedia man or woman. What do I know you did not write that Wikipedia piece you quoted?

[Pony]

Originally Posted by mahafakir

Where did you get the idea that you can get a Ph.D degree by reading Wikipedia. Wikipedia is written by fools, for the fools. And It is saying about the same thing that I said. Only you do not know what the writer means. The writer did not tell you how the phermones are secreted. Read some biology books, read sex books. By the way Wikipedia is fraud. It is written basically by people who want to spread worms and virus to your computer. It takes money from ZEDO and others who want to sell the products of their customers. So next time you quoote from a known College prodessor and not from an Idiot Wikipedia man or woman. What do I know you did not write that Wikipedia piece you quoted?

It might be a good idea to back off a bit there, mahafakir.

You're new here, so perhaps you're unaware that this is not a board for blasting people and calling them names. We're all here to discuss goats (and other topics in other forums).

You obviously have strong opinions about Wikipedia, and that's all well and good, but it's not a great idea to come blasting on to a board and start calling people names.

If you feel so strongly that you must say something, best to take it to private message.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Just a quick note that this "I'm A Faker" (if you pronounce the log in name phonetically) doesn't know what education I have, either.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Just a quick note that this "I'm A Faker" doesn't know what education I have, either.

Sometimes, the best you can do is to put a certain type of person on "ignore" and then shoot a note to the moderator.

[cjb]

Mahafakir,

You have a PM

[desertshi]

Whoa......well, I for one am glad to read of others' experiences with milking through. It is nice to have "I've done it" proof....I might think about doing this! I would need to supplement with some colostrum in the beginning though, right, if I plan on dam raising?

[Alice In TX/MO]

Desertshi, I'm not sure what your question is. If you milk through, you don't have kids from that goat for that year.

The doe I'm milking through this year had a single kid last spring. She was not bred again.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Desertshi, I'm not sure what your question is. If you milk through, you don't have kids from that goat for that year.

The doe I'm milking through this year had a single kid last spring. She was not bred again.

How exactly do you do this? Just continue milking even when she's in heat?

[Alice In TX/MO]

Sure, same routine. On the milk stand twice a day.

We milked our herd queen, an Alpine, for 20 months straight over parts of 2008 and 2009.

When in heat, they just gawk and flag at the boys (who are in a different area) for a couple of days. Sometimes milk yield goes down just a bit for a day or two when they are in heat, but not always.

Emily Dixon of OzarkJewels tells me that it's less stress on the doe to milk through, rather than to be bred, dried off, and kid again.

I found an article from the Dairy Goat Journal:
http://www.dairygoatjournal.com/issu.../Tim_King.html

[desertshi]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Desertshi, I'm not sure what your question is. If you milk through, you don't have kids from that goat for that year.

The doe I'm milking through this year had a single kid last spring. She was not bred again.

The quote below this was an answer to my earlier question as to what exactly "milking through" is. That is what I was meaning...rebreeding and not drying up. I thought that this was what you were referring to. So then my question was what do you do in that case.
I have only three full grown does. I am trying to breed for my future herd and I want more babies. Where I live they breed all year round so I have been thinking about rebreeding the two who just kidded two weeks ago in about a month so I can grow my herd size faster. THe problem is that I don't want to lose out on my milk! So, I thought that this thread was about that sort of "milking through." Though, I didn't know it was possible or recommended.
Does that clear my question up a little?

Originally Posted by mpillow

to me...
milking thru---milking thru pregnancy
milking on---milking beyond 10m without breeding

Here in Maine...my milking on does have increased as warmer temps. some are bred now to kid in May/June....2 have recently kidded (no FF's)

my milkers on and possibly bred are producing at 25% typical VOLUME