Pygmy goat kidding - "water sac disappearing"?

SnowyNorth · #1 01/18/10, 08:38 PM

We have had our doe and buck for almost a year. These are our first and we're "expecting" any day now. This last Thursday she had the "water sac" out about 2-3 inches and we were all getting very excited. However, after that she either pulled it back in or possibly it popped and will abort is my only guess.? For two days afterwords I would notice her periodically put pressure against her backside using the wall. Is this normal? She's acting her usual self eating and drinking.

I really hope we didn't lose it. This will be her first kidding.

Hoping someone has had a positive outcome or insight...

luvzmybabz · #2 01/18/10, 08:44 PM

I know this sounds scary to a newbie I would go in and check, do you know an exact date that she was due? Temp? rectal with digital thermometer..

I lost my very first baby here I thought other doe was due first ( did not have dates) and I was wrong had left her in the main pen and went out to feed to find litlle perfect boer/mancha baby dead on the ground had been cleaned and everything I cried for a LONG LONG time and I had only had these goats for a month. My goats are livestock and I have toughened up about it, but I really love them I love to spend time with them and sometimes just watch them out the window.

SnowyNorth · #3 01/18/10, 09:13 PM

Initially I was wanting to let nature take it's course. In the event that she aborted is there any hope of saving the little one? I don;t know exact due dates.

I don't have a problem checking if it won't hurt her/cause any problems with the little one. I haven't taken her temp. What is a good/bad range? I have delivered many a holstein calf but this goat business is all so new. I just was expecting for her to freshen within 24 hours after seeing the bubble.

Minelson · #4 01/18/10, 10:30 PM

I'm wondering if you are mistaking the mukus plug for a water sack. How big was it?

prairiedog · #5 01/18/10, 10:59 PM

I would go in and check

SLD Farm · #6 01/19/10, 12:11 PM

If it has been that long since you saw the "water sack" and no kid then you have a big issue. Go in and check. if you don't know what you are checking for or what to do, find someone that does or get a vet.

Minelson · #7 01/19/10, 02:02 PM

update please! Hope everything is ok

HappyFarmer · #8 01/19/10, 05:13 PM

Are you sure it was the water sack? How big was it? If this happened Thursday I would think if it was the sack & she had no kids born she would have a fever & be in very bad shape by now.

Maybe it was a prolapse?
HF

**mygoat** · #9 01/19/10, 05:19 PM

If it was truly a bubble and not just mucus, you have a HUGE problem. That kid is dead and rotting inside of her. Something needs done asap. I would TRY to go invasive but it's likely her ligaments returned and her cervix closed. She will need either put down or surgery.

cmharris6002 · #10 01/19/10, 05:23 PM

A slight prolapse will look like a bubble but go back in and could explain why she presses backside against the wall. Do you have a due date for her?

dosthouhavemilk · #11 01/21/10, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

If it was truly a bubble and not just mucus, you have a HUGE problem. That kid is dead and rotting inside of her. Something needs done asap. I would TRY to go invasive but it's likely her ligaments returned and her cervix closed. She will need either put down or surgery.

The third option is to Lutalyse her which will reopen her cervix and try to extract the rotting kid(s). We had to do this a couple years ago. After I worked for five hours trying to get the kid out, the vet got it out in two hours. We lost the doe in the end anyways, but were able to remove the fetus. Our first loss during a kidding in 8 years. Haven't had one since either.

SnowyNorth · #12 01/21/10, 04:02 PM

Well sorry for the time lapse, we've had a little girl ourselves Tuesday night (the human kind)

and the site was down yesterday.

It surely was the sac. It was like a small balloon 3-4" in diameter, and fluid filled. I checked her last night (Wed) and she had a temp of 102 F. I've read that it should be between 101-104F. It felt to my untrained hand that her cervix was closed and she is still eating and drinking as normal. Alas I do not know her due date, but will not let the buck just run from here on forward.

I hope I don't offend anyone but I'm not the type to call in the vet over this. I'll let nature take it's course and with any luck she will do fine. If she gets progressively worse than I'll put her down if it comes to that. I really hope that her and her baby(s) are OK. I'll let everyone know in any event what happens.

dosthouhavemilk · #13 01/21/10, 05:25 PM

Did it look like the "water sac" on this page?
http://morningmistherd.webs.com/sheskiddingright.htm

If it looks like what you see in a cow in labor and she never progressed past that then you most likely do have a dead decomposing kid behind a closed cervix. If you knew the due date, Lutalyse would be in order, but since you don't, there isn't much to be done but wait and see if she turns for the worse, like Veruca did, or not.
http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,2446.0.html
Once the doe goes into labor you want progression within half an hour. Any longer than that and you need to go in and check presentation. Pygmies are ntorious for hard deliveries depending on the build of the doe and the size of the kid(s).

We have brought a vet in for only two births in the years we've been kidding out goats. Veruca was the second one.

I hope there is a good outcome but if what you saw was labor that many days ago, it does not look promising.

SnowyNorth · #14 01/21/10, 05:52 PM

It looked more like this picture, just a little smaller and lots more pink in color.

http://www.justkiddin.com.au/images/birth12.jpg

It would be very unfortunate to lose her at this point. I would really like to have a few does to have in milk and this may sway me away from Pygmy's after all is said and done.

**mygoat** · #15 01/21/10, 05:58 PM

If it was pink, fleshy, and NOT fluid filled, it was prolapse. It may happen again during labor, and may be permanent or need repair.

Pygmies are notorious for kidding problems, hope she does all right!

dosthouhavemilk · #16 01/21/10, 05:59 PM

Sounds like it could be a prolapse but not if it was fluid filled.
Pygmies aren't really milk goats. They are more a pet/meat breed.

HappyFarmer · #17 01/21/10, 06:06 PM

Wow. I was certain it was a prolapse until that pic of the water sac was posted.

Without seeing it I can only guess. Two possible things come to mind.

1-Goat Medicine I think has a blurb about rare does having kids at 2 different times, a week or so apart. It is very very rare. But you have not kid.

2-She had a cloudburst and there are no kids.

HF

SnowyNorth · #18 01/23/10, 03:26 PM

OK folks, just was out working in the barn and she's doing it again. It's (water sac) is now approx. 1-2" in circumference.

Should I intervene or not?? Sadly, I do not know the due date. Looking for a few quick responses as I'm going to go out and check in 15 mins.

SnowyNorth · #19 01/23/10, 03:31 PM

...changing title

dosthouhavemilk · #20 01/23/10, 03:32 PM

You are positive it is a water sac? It sounds like a prolapse. Especially if it is happening again. A water sac should broke way back when you saw it the first time.
http://www.das.psu.edu/research-exte...-image-gallery
At the bottom.

If she is prolapsing, it is possible the kid is tangled up in the extra skin. With the doe who had a prolapse for us last year I had to go in and remove the loose skin from over the kid as she was in labor. That same doe is heavy bred with her 8th pregnancy and due in a week. No signs of prolapse this year.

Is there any way you can get a picture?