Disbudding with sedation

[deineria]

Every dairy goat breeder I've contacted around here about helping us disbud our first kids has said they all use sedation or an actual full on knock out drug on kids they are disbudding. I was surprised since I've not seen that mentioned here on the forum. One needs another drug to wake them up afterward.
I am no opposed to this since I am a huge softie, but has anyone else done this here? Is it very expensive? I have asked about cost with these breeders, but no one has mentioned a figure other than saying something like, "Well, it costs more, but it is worth it."

[jordan]

Putting a goat under is always risky and I don't know why they would take that chance just to disbud a kid. I'm guessing you would also have to take them in to the vet to have it done. I've got better things to spend my money on than handing it over to the vet for something I can do just as easily ;-)

[Backfourty,MI.]

I don't disbud my goats but it sounds like they are talking about surgery to disbud?

I have never heard of anyone sedating there goats to disbud with an iron. That just doesn't sound right to me if that's is what they are talking about.

[Alice In TX/MO]

The disbudding process takes less than 30 seconds. The kids holler as much from being restrained as from the disbudding.

The sedation carries huge risks.

I disbud. I don't sedate.

I don't think there's a 'knock out' med available to goat keepers. Yes, if you take your kids to the vet, this could be done, but not on the farm.

[thaiblue12]

I would love it if it was possible, but due to the risks my little babies go "natural", while I hide and do not listen. It is the one part of goat ownership I truly hate and wish it was not so painful for them.
I did try to watch and maybe even learn but the first one, just halfway done on one side was enough to send me fleeing the barn. Heck I would even love to have some banatmine or something to help wth the pain.

[wintrrwolf]

I know at the clinic for cats that do not travel well the vet would prescribe acepromazine.
Acepromazine is frequently used in animals as a sedative and antiemetic. Its principal value is in quietening and calming anxious animals. The standard pharmaceutical preparation, acepromazine maleate, is used extensively in horses, dogs, and cats. What the dosage would be for a kid you would have to talk to a vet, sorry. And truly you would have to give it at least 30 min before attempting to dis-bud, then you would have to monitor respiratory and heart rate until the effects wore off.

[deineria]

They all get it from their vets (get the feeling it isn't because it is the most legal thing to give, but you know how that is), though the one says they simply use a drug to sedate and the others say they are actually knocking them out with a drug and require another drug to "wake" them up - they do it at their farms, and they are using an iron (asked me to bring ours to do ours kids). All farms have said if I'm willing to pay their costs for the drugs from their vet or buy it on my own, if mine will sell it (might not), then they are happy to help us learn, but I just wondered about using the drugs. The one farm is a huge breeder and shows nationally, so I just can't imagine they are killing off kids doing this for what their kids sell for, but since no one here seems familiar with this technique, it certainly makes me wonder!

[HappyFarmer]

Our first disbudded kids went to the vet. She knocked them out. Cost me $78.00 per kid, and the little buckling had scurs.

I watched the vet that time, then called another breeder to show me how to disbud. I've been doing it ever since with no medication.

Vets around here would rather collect the money than give you the meds to keep on hand, this goes for any med script or not. I called a few weeks ago and asked her if she had any CD Antitoxin. She made a big deal out of it and acted like it was a script, she had to see the goat etc. etc.. I made the hour trip to tractor supply that night.

Good Grief.
HF

[wintrrwolf]

Yeah would make me wonder too. I have watched video's on disbudding and in all honesty I do not think I would be able to do it physically or mentally myself. So since my adult goats have horns, which I find are kinda handy, I figure I will just let the kids have em too. Don't know if this is a good decision to go with on the kids that won't be staying with us. But since I am still a newbie goat owner I figure I will start with the simple stuff first, like hoof trimming and whethering...shoot I might need some Ace for myself lol

[momagoat61]

A Sedative can and probably would take hrs to wear off the effects or could be deadly. My friend burns the horn buds from all her kids and mine when I breed my does and she has 38 + does due annually and thats burning over a 114 if they all had triplets kids annually. She has never used a sedative, like Alica said they holler and scream being put in the holding box for restaining them more then the actally burning. I think vets all need to take a study cource here on Homestreading Goats before getting their license to vet on goats.

[momagoat61]

30 seconds after the horns are burned the kids are getting them a drink of milk and on the road again to playing.....

[catdance62]

Xylazine
Yohimbine is the antidote
But it is risky, and for many, not worth it.

[Goat Servant]

No they do not need sedative for disbudding. But maybe you do (just pokin fun there)
Last yr I sold some wethers to FFA. At the time they had a no horn rule.
FFA leader arranged for vet to come out (FFA also paid for procedure)
These boys had 3+ inch horns.
He knocked them out sawed them off & burnt the remainder with iron.
Then the reverse drug. It took a good 10-15 minutes to come out of it.
It went fine but I pret near threw up & Im not generally a wuss.

Keep calling around, there must be somebody out there who does not use sedation.

[yarrow]

eekk... I just don't think I could risk sedation, when if done correctly .. just plain, straight forward disbudding.. is quick, simple & I've yet to ever have any sort of complication. I do burn to a 3rd degree burn on my very first application of the iron. By getting a good full copper circle quickly, it gives me time to really look over the burn and redo any spot that doesn't look perfect. Within seconds of getting done & being let out of the box.. the just burned kid hits the ground, ready to play. I burn buds for free for people who are too squim-ish to do their own/or don't own a disbudder of their own. I just can't imagine putting a little baby thru sedation AND paying a arm & leg for a simple procedure.

susie, mo ozarks

[stormwalker]

At disbudding time, I'm the one who needs sedation!
I'm telling the truth!
I hate it!
That being said, the kids are fine within minutes of being done.
Maybe you should call someone in 4H. They could probably help.

[deineria]

I think I will try someone in 4H because you all have certainly convinced me I don't want to sedate! Thanks! Love the forum for times such as these. . .when I have no idea.

[farmmom]

If it's reversable, it sounds like they are using either Rompun with Yobine reversal or Telazol - can't remember the reversal on that one. I'd be afraid to try this on any of my goats, let alone a little bitty baby one!!!!

[KimM]

Originally Posted by farmmom

If it's reversable, it sounds like they are using either Rompun with Yobine reversal or Telazol - can't remember the reversal on that one. I'd be afraid to try this on any of my goats, let alone a little bitty baby one!!!!

The reversal for Rompun is also toxic to goats (as is lidocaine) and must be used with extreme caution. Every vet I've seen do this uses all 3 drugs for disbudding.
My friend took her little doe to the vet to be disbudded and while he did a nice, clean job, friend said it took her 2 full days to come out of the sedation completely, plus cost her over $60. She said she won't go that route again.

[Pony]

The vet my friend uses up in IA does disbudding for $8 per kid, and he doesn't tranquilize or provide full sedation.

At that price, I'm seriously considering having him do the first set of kids. OTOH, he didn't do such a good job on the bucklings (though I know that it takes a bit more to burn their horns off).

[deineria]

ketamine and xylazine are the drugs they all use. I emailed and asked them again.
They also insisted they had never had a mishap, but I am still quite leary after reading what I have hear.