doeling CAE positive-should I return it?

[Jcran]

Today we got our New-ubians CAE and CL tests back...one of the doelings that we bought for my daughter's 4-H project last Spring came up positive. We had decided to test and have the vet do it right away, because a neighbor gave us two free Nubians and we wanted to be sure before we integrated them (and space was an issue). They were both fine. We NEVER imagined that this doeling would be positive. We called the breeder immediately and she offered a doe kid from next Spring or our money back. She was very kind but said she'd not had a case in over 10 years. She said she shows a lot and maybe thats where it happened...I don't know but I think we are just going to get our money back. My daughter is devastated and so am I. We love this doeling but we CANNOT have a CAE positive animal on our place. In the meantime, we are going to now pull blood on our entire herd, redoing the Nubians and doing our yearly test on the Boers. At this point, I want to be sure that OUR herd is clean, clean, clean which they've been on all tests from the past 3 years. Someone mentioned that if its a borderline positive, it could mean that she got heat-treated CAE positive milk and just had a reaction to it? I am new to this and kind of freaking out right now...what should I do?

[freedomfrom4]

I'm sorry your having to deal with this. I don't know much, but aren't some labs more accurate then others? And don't young goats have to be a certain age before the results are accurate? I sorry don't really know what you should do at least the breeder is working with you.

[betsy h.]

Before you dump her, have a PCR test done- the PCR will tell you if she has antibodies- which we need! Or the actual virus. CO St. does this test, in a lavender top blood tube- it is a bit pricey, but for a beloved doe well worth the price of about $25.

I do not have the address, but it can be gotten......

Keep her if she has antibodies, with no worries.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I'm assuming you meant Colorado State University - Animal Sciences.

Here's their contact info:

Contact Animal Sciences

Telephone: 970-491-1442
fax: 970-491-5326
email: m.weiss@colostate.edu

Department of Animal Sciences
Colorado State University
Fort Collins CO 80523-1171

[Briza]

Yes do a second test. Always do more than one test before culling an animal.
B

[goatkid]

I would do a second blood test eith either BioTracking or WADDL. It's my understanding that WADDL also does the PCR test. Some labs are not accurate. I would not use PAVL. I sold a doe to someone who was out of a negative dam and whose sisters were all negative. She tested positive there. They retested at the other two labs two times and she tested negative. CAE is rarely spread through anything but colostrum/milk. If you really want this doe's genetics, you could breed her and pull the babies at birth before getting rid of the doe.

[Alice In TX/MO]

WADDL info:

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_WADDL/

Biotracking - CAE testing:

http://www.biotracking.com/cae.php

[mygoat]

I use and like Pavlabs. You're going to get false positives/negatives no matter where you send the blood, and it depends on a LOT of things like shipping conditions and the age of the samples.

I always retest positives. I also retest incoming stock at least twice before integrating them into the herd.

How old is this doeling? If she is under 6 months it's not recommended she even be tested yet.

I just sent my samples on last monday - they should've been there by Wednesday in time for the friday testing at Pavlabs... They didn't get there in time so the guy will be retesting any positives that crop up on Tuesday - he said due to the cold weather the samples *should* be fine but odd results will be indicative of the samples being too old, at which point I'll just resend samples.

[Alice In TX/MO]

PavLab info:

http://pavlab.com/services/index.html

[luvzmybabz]

Would a PCR test for antibodies be done on an animal that tested high positive, postitive or borderline?

[Jcran]

The test done was at UC Davis and was an ELISA test. What other tests are out there? She is 9 months and after having a long talk with the vet today, and not really having an adequate place to isolate her until she is retested, I am planning on returning her. The vet basically told me that she is positive and having all my boers to worry about, I don't want to take the chance.

[ozark_jewels]

Having had one false positive before, I would certainly retest if I was attached to her.

[Briza]

having all my boers to worry about

She is no danger to anyone not drinking her milk. Your adult animals are not in danger from her CAE status- unless she was also CL positive?
B~

[goatkid]

Not all ELISA tests are equal. I've heard not to CAE test at UC Davis. This doeling is not fresh, so I wouldn't worry about having to isolate her before she's retested. She has no milk to contaminate your Boers.
As for PAVL, I once got a false negative from them. I retested the doe along with two siblings with the other labs and they were all positive. I would never have purchased the two siblings had the first test been accurate. Even fresh, these animals did not spread CAE to my other goats, who all tested negative. I did sell the two younger siblings for meat and the oldest doe lives with a friend's positive group. I'm not so worried that she will spread CAE through casual contact, but I allow some of my does to nurse their kids and I wouldn't want a baby to nurse from her.

[Jcran]

Everyone was CL negative. THAT woiuld have freaked me out far more than the CAE test. Why would Davis be suspect as a testing center? I've used them for 3 years now...

[betsy h.]

Keep in mind there *may* be different strains of CAE - I know folks who kept CAE+ and CAE- animals together for many years and no one sero-converted. I know folks who have done it and every animal has sero-converted.

Do a PCR. and retest ELISA in 60-90 days. My guess is you have not got a problem.

[mygoat]

Originally Posted by Jcran

Everyone was CL negative. THAT woiuld have freaked me out far more than the CAE test. Why would Davis be suspect as a testing center? I've used them for 3 years now...

That would freak me out only if two tests came back positive in a row... All positives go into immediate isolation even if I don't believe it to be a problem, but *just in case*. CL has a high false positive/negative rate, of only 80% accurate.

[Jcran]

What is a PCR?

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

If she is under 6 months it's not recommended she even be tested yet.
.................

This is just double talk breeders give you. Always test at least a couple of your infant kids each year, and all incoming kids, if you or the breeder is CAE negative than how could the kid have any immunity to CAE for it to test positive at any age?


I know folks who have done it and every animal has sero-converted
..........................

At some point we have to stop spreading all the stories folks tell us, and talk about what we know. CAE is spread from blood in adults. CAE is spread in colostrum from dam to kids, and that is pretty much 99% also. So all these conversions in adult animals is simply not true. They were positive all along, took a stress like kidding or moving into a too full of barn to fight their way to food with boss adult does, for them to then test positive.

I don't believe for a minute all the stories, and I refuse to let new folks believe them either. A doe who is positive caught it from drinking positive colostrum at birth. Was fed raw milk from a positive dam (and I bet she would have to be symptomatic to even get a positive test on this milk) or was part of something horrific like a dog attach, where the dog bites a positive doe and then immediately bites and draws blood of a negative doe....you can see how far fetched most of this is. Another one you will hear is "I caught it at a show"...nonsense.

The info on testing with PCR is on dairygoatinfo.com in goatkeeping 101 I have typed it all out before on here if you just want to search PCR on here. Vicki

[Alice In TX/MO]

What is CAE??

CAE colostrum testing ???

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,92.0.html