Can you make a profit???

[1sttimemom]

I have been raising horses for yrs. Really cutting back due to the economy & also lack of time for the amount of training horses need. I still have a few of course! But we are considering other livestock. We don't have enough land really for cattle. We have about 10 acres of sub-irrigated grass pasture (mostly native cheat grass, wild oats, and some kochia). The horses are not keeping it grazed down. We had to mow some this summer. We do buy hay for winter.

Anyway, is there really any profit to be made from a small scale meat goat farm? I am not interested in show animals. I was considering mostly raising a few that could be sold privately or at auction for slaughter. We do have several livestock auctions that hold goat sales regularly. Currently the prices seem to average over $1 per lb for live goats at auction. We could probably graze them for about 6 to 8 months out of the year. We would have to buy hay & suppliment grain, etc. We already have buildings that could be used, would probably have to add a lower hotwire on the pasture fence. I don't want to have dairy animals as just no time to milk them.

Any thoughts?

[SLD Farm]

I really think only you can answer that question. How is the pasture that you will be providing? Will it offer enough nutrition that you won't need to supplement feed during those 6-8 months? Do you already have shelter and kidding facilities in place? What is the cost of hay and grain in your area? Can you do the majority of your own vet care? You would need to figure out what your inputs would be(determined on # of does run) and divide that by the number of kids to sell and that will tell you how much each kid would need to bring inorder to make a profit/breakeven.
My goats pay their way. (The farm might actually make money but for 3 horses and their expenses. I love 'em though!) I sell 4H projects and breeding stock. I have to control costs carefully and am always looking for better feeding/mgmt options.

[1sttimemom]

We do already have several outbuildings and sheds. I think they would be fine for goats. Would have to add goat feeders as mostly we have horse equipment which is set higher up. We would probably have to add another low hotwire to the pasture. The pasture is pretty good quality. I have run several horses (including preg mares & foals) with them being fat & sleek. Before we bought this place our neighbor used to lease the pasture and run several cow/calf pairs on it.

I have been reading everything I can about this. We may give it a try starting small. I should mention that I did have milk goats as a kid, currently have 2 pet pygmy goats, and am somewhat familiar with their care. I know I won't make a fortune, but if we could make a little and utilize the pasture & facilities that woud be nice.

[1sttimemom]

Oh, and vet care is not a problem. We do have a good livestock vet here and I have been doing most of the vet care for horses since age 12. I am also a nurse so shots, wounds, birthing are not too big an issue. I would just need to learn what exactly goats need in terms of vaccines, worming, etc.

[mygoat]

You will want to start with GOOD stock either way. You will have to sell several does and you'll want to sell some breeding stock yearly for extra products. Plus, good stock will have better meat characteristics. Remember, goat standards are in place with production in mind. A good show animal is a good production animal. Wether you show or not is not an issue, you want the high quality.

[HappyFarmer]

I'm a huge advocate for buying disease tested goats. Testing, biosecurity, imported bloodlines, etc. I can tell you I've yet to break even on the investment I've made selling breeding stock for $200-$400 each. We've been breeding for about 5 years, building our herd if you will. I might add many of those yearly costs we've eliminated by learning to do much ourselves, like blood drawing & disbudding. In the long run we'll see profits, it will just take a few more years.

Given your goal of basically brush/meat goats, I recommend you buy from a local breeder, one that shows no obvious signs of disease, and has culled hard for a maintenance free herd. You will never make a profit selling meat kids if you go the route of disease tested meat goats or high maintenance pampered goats. A lot of effort went into acquiring so called "Disease Free" status & you will see it in the prices, definately worth it for the long term.

Your profits, the little you will see in your 1st few years, will be shown not only in the sale amount, but in improved pastures for your horses. Free-range the goats on rotational pastures with free-choice shelter for minimal labor input.

Little input on your part can make a small profit, provided you keep a few hardy breeders, kid out in conjunction with your growing season, and sell your kid crop prior to having to supplement. I didn't check where you were located, but here prime meat prices are at Easter-just as winter and 100% supplemtation is ending it's peak. Better prices IMO can be had by letting the buyer slaughter on site provided you have an ethnic community close by.

Vaccinate your stock for CD/T & Pneumonia, offer minerals. Anything more for a small scale meat goat herd eats your profits, why you should buy hardy local stock.

If you think you might ever want to sell registered breeding stock in the future, buy disease tested stock & be done with it. Once a disease is in your herd it is hard to eliminate. Otherwise, the bare minimum will suffice.

Some of this may sound contradictory, the point is a diseased herd is one you do not want to acquire, yet your choices in buying stock can make or break your future as a goat farmer. Buy selectively.
HF

[HappyFarmer]

Just wanted to edit this sentence:

Vaccinate your stock for CD/T & Pneumonia, offer minerals, clean water, and forage or good quality hay when needed. Anything more for a small scale meat goat herd eats your profits, why you should buy hardy local stock.

I didn't want anyone to think forage/fiber was not part of the feeding regime.

[CK25Hulk]

My current small scale boer commercial meat goes as follows:

I have 6 acres fenced with one 3 stall shed row barn
I started last year with 4 does (percentage boer) goats bred for $600 total (bought local).
Spring 09 I had 8 kids
Last Monday I sold 6 kids at the livestock auction, avg price was 1.33 per lb take home was around $530
I purchased a young full blood boer buck for $500 a few months ago for annual breeding.

The plan is to repeat the process, from my understanding around easter and thanksgiving are good times to sell kids, and in my area kids in the 40-80lb sell for more at the auction than most adults

I thought I could get away with just pasture which is taken care of with lime and fertilizer, since these were not show goats. The feed keeps them friendly for when you have to give shots or trim hooves. Plus provides extra vitamins that your pasture may be deficient in.

I believe year 2 and on I should be able to start making a profit. But I have encountered some diseases that have added some expenses so it is hard to predict what the upcoming year may bring.


What I have found out is:
Small amount of feed whether you formulate your own of buy commercial helps. I typically only fed during winter, I add to that hay.

Spring, summer & fall they are primarily on pasture alone
A good mineral source also helps.

[southerngurl]

I don't think you are going to have much profit feeding much hay and grain. You would want your land to be able to support them almost entirely, adding a little grain end of pregnancy and then just hay in the winter may work.

[Cliff]

This is our experience only so take it with a grain of salt.

Goats are more profitable than cows if you do it right, and the market has been steady for several years, unlike cows where price can fluctuate a lot.
The goal is to get hardy local stock that's low maintenance and doesn't need a lot of special treatment. Feeding grain cuts into your profit, ideally you want stock that does well on just grass/hay.

Don't buy show stock. They've been fed grain and babied for generations to achieve the look that's desired in the show ring. Grain is expensive and not necessary if you have the right type of goat.

Don't buy boers. They are the highest maintenance goats we ever had. Others locally have had the same experience as we did with them. They are more susceptible to worms (more wormer and more of your time = $ ) and most need grain to grow well. Also since you have to feed grain their hooves grow faster so need more trimming (= even more of your time.)

Local brush goats (some call them spanish goats for some reason) and anything with kiko in it is good. Kiko's are much tougher than Boers, they are much more resistant to worms, do well without grain and rarely have hoof issues. There is a percentage goat that's mostly kiko and just a little boer (forget the ratio) that's called meatmaker that grows fast and gets huge, but they're fairly expensive. We have some nubian/kiko goats who are really big. Our kiko/brush goats are pretty big as well. If you can pick up an unregistered kiko buck for a good price I'd advise it, if not just use brush goats.

Last, learn when the ethnic holidays are in your area. Try and breed your goats so that the young ones are a good butcher size at those times of year. Prices are always best then. Also, you can make even more money if you're willing to have people come to your farm and butcher their goats there. Some ethnic groups prefer this and after you get a base clientele you'll get more people wanting goats than you can supply from word of mouth. A local farmer made a good bit of money this way. He did quit though because someone started stealing goats from him. His set-up was such that the main goat pasture was out by the road a good distance from the house. If your pastures are more protected it might work for you. I read about a guy who made good money butchering his own goats and driving through the areas of town with high numbers of ethnics, selling meat out of his truck. You'd have to figure out what to charge based on market price/weight of goats after slaughter/gas expense/your time to make sure you aren't losing money though.

Good luck if you decide to try it and let us know how it turns out

[copperpennykids]

Sorry, I have to disagree with the above poster. Boer goats are extremely hardy and grow very well on browse/hay, providing you have good genetics. In Colorado, where they get hard freezes, worm resistance is not a problem. Here in North Idaho we only worm twice a year, and our goats are healthy, glossy, and very productive.

We have read quite a bit about raising goats in other parts of the country, and apparently some goats have more worm problems - but many have said that they built up their own resistance to wormers by worming incorrectly, either with the wrong wormer, or too much or too little.

Regarding grain - it is not necessary for good growth, but we do use it. This is because our wethers are sold as 4-H projects and the 4-Hers will be graining. Also, a grain-fed goat will just grow much more quickly and show better than one that is on browse only. I guess you could compare that to 4-H sheep projects vs. ranchers who just feed pasture. Just because the sheep is grain fed doesn't mean that the breed is at fault - just a different way of managing depending on your goals.

Our breeding stock receives very little grain. We do grain 2 weeks before heading to a show - because they then have a little extra meat on them and a bloom. Must work, as we win quite frequently. We are opposed to those animals that come into the show ring just plain FAT. Some judges will put those animals up for CH - but those animals also have trouble getting bred, ketosis problems, and kidding problems. And they cost more to feed.....

That said, Kiko goats are waaaay cool. Just not very many of them, and getting harder all of the time to find herds without CL/CAE. So harder to get replacement stock for your breeding program. Boer/Kiko crosses do very very well. Perhaps you could get Boer does and a Kiko buck? For myself, we are very happy with the Boers. But we did make sure we bought quality CLEAN stock we started.

[HappyFarmer]

I agree that no breed of goat is more prone to worms or disease than others. Due to MANAGEMENT some are more apt to develp problems though be it short or long term. Even the hardiest animals can succumb to worms or disease if not managed properly. Some things to consider also are moving a goat from farm to farm, region to region some can take months, or even a generation(s) to adapt. Why buying local and from farms managing similar to your intentions can be important, particularly if you want a quick ROA as the OP indicates.

Heck, since we're rooting for our favorite breeds, I vote Myotonic.

HF

[LaManchaPaul]

To tack onto what Cliff said, try to divine if the ethnic market prefers intact bucks or not. I started with Boer and then had Kiko. The Kiko were cut and a Cuban buyer passed up the wethers. However all buyers seemed to prefer the largest-bodied goat in the pen. So the Kiko/Nubian or Boer/Nubian cross sounds pretty good.

Paul

[copperpennykids]

Originally Posted by LaManchaPaul

To tack onto what Cliff said, try to divine if the ethnic market prefers intact bucks or not. I started with Boer and then had Kiko. The Kiko were cut and a Cuban buyer passed up the wethers. However all buyers seemed to prefer the largest-bodied goat in the pen. So the Kiko/Nubian or Boer/Nubian cross sounds pretty good.

Paul

If you are going after the ethnic market, many of them refuse to buy the LaMancha/Boer cross - something to do with the lack of ears. It is goofy I know, but it is the truth. Commercial meat buyers don't care - so long as there is lots of meat on the carcass.

Also, you want your breeding stock to be at least 50% Boer/Meat, preferably 75%. You get bigger meatier kids that way, and better prices.

[IdahoLaura]

Originally Posted by Cliff

Last, learn when the ethnic holidays are in your area. Try and breed your goats so that the young ones are a good butcher size at those times of year. Prices are always best then. Also, you can make even more money if you're willing to have people come to your farm and butcher their goats there. Some ethnic groups prefer this and after you get a base clientele you'll get more people wanting goats than you can supply from word of mouth....... I read about a guy who made good money butchering his own goats and driving through the areas of town with high numbers of ethnics, selling meat out of his truck. You'd have to figure out what to charge based on market price/weight of goats after slaughter/gas expense/your time to make sure you aren't losing money though.

Howdy!
Before you even think about butchering and selling meat, check with your Department of Livestock and/or USDA to see if this is legal. In some states it's illegal and in other states there's very specific rules for this. For some reason the Feds are really starting to crack down on these activities.
IDLaura

[texican]

If you like to have goats around, for milk, or for brush control, or companionship, then it's probably worth it. If you plan on losing money, I can think of no better money pit.

Forget about vet care, if you plan on profit. My cousin has over 400 goats... they get wormed and their hooves trimmed. No visits to the vet, ever. First off, the vets rarely know more than she does. It's a catch-22... Vets dont learn about goats, because their's no money in them, as they charge more than the goat is worth. A family pet, yeah, people will pay hundreds, but a meat goat that's going to bring in ~75 bucks, and the vet bill costs more than that... she cut's her losses.

People that might break even sell expensive goats to newbies or 4H kids, that expect to double or triple their money.

A lot of people think they're 'making money' on a project on the homestead... yet they fail to add in and figure what they're 'wages' are worth.

I don't know how many goats we have... several dozen (5 more this weekend) at least... they cost money... we do get milk, although it costs more than 'store bought milk'. I like them around, as they keep the vegetation down, and if the world goes sour, we'll still have dairy products available... maybe not as much production as we get now (with feed store inputs), but some is better'n none.

What I'm basically saying is, don't figure you're profits by money alone. The non monetary services may tilt the balance in your favor.