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  #1  
Old 11/12/09, 08:06 PM
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Deworming your Goats: natural remedy

Just wondering if anyone has any tips or natural remedies for de-worming your goats? Came across this lady who uses a natural hedge or plant called Mugwort that her goats nibble on. She says it works on cows too.

http://www.ecofilms.com.au/?p=320

Where do you get Mugwort from?

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Old 11/12/09, 08:39 PM
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This type of thread always opens a HUGE controversy.

For those of us who live in the warm and humid south, these just don't work.

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Old 11/12/09, 08:46 PM
 
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Deworming

I use a herbal wormer we get through hoeggers goat supply,plus I give pine branches,and safe guard worm block and we never have much of a problem.we stay away from cemicals as much as we can.I live in pa so this might make a difference.

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Old 11/12/09, 08:56 PM
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Here is a description of Mugwort - along with other names: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...ai_2603000533/

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  #5  
Old 11/12/09, 11:53 PM
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Fecal first to find out what worms you have in your area, I wouldn't have a safeguard goat block out for my goats if I didn't have worms that safeguard kills, because it's too much chemical. It's fine to find alternatives but you have to make sure the alternatives work, guessing is expensive if it doesn't in lost milk, meat or kids. Vicki

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Round 2 of kidding starts May 15th, a few doelings and bucklings will be for sale.

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Old 11/13/09, 04:53 AM
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I use Molly's Herbal wormer. I love it. It has kept my goats' worm load extremely low for years. The cost is just about the same as chemicals. The biggest downfall is you give it weekly but now it is second nature. I started with goats that had been just wormed and gave them the herbs weekly after that.
I have had fecals done on some here and there , if their eyelids seemed to be pale or if their coats seemed rough. Only one or two ever came back with a heavy worm load.
I would much rather treat one or two that need it than the whole herd on a regular basis.
I also like that there is now milk with holding time for the herbs. Some of those chemical wormers recommend 56 days of milk with holding. My vet advises following those recommendations , so I would loose a ton of milk. Not worth it to me.
Besides the goats look great and milk great. What more could I ask for.

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Old 11/13/09, 01:21 PM
 
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The only reason there is no withholding time on herbs is that no studies have been done for residues in goat milk. No big financial incentive there since you cannot patent plants. There will still be residues in milk from herbs and the only reason this is ok with people is that they do not know the effects of herbal residues in milk or they assume they are benign and they assume they know that the effects of the chemical wormer residues are bad.

Waiting until a goat has pale eyelids is using her body condition and your feed dollar to raise a huge population of parasites. The animal is anemic by then -pale eyes equals blood loss-and will take a lot of support and extra nutrition to get back to optimum health not just de-worming. Famacha is great for 3rd world countries where chemicals are out of range of livestock owners purses but letting a goat host a lot of parasites is never a good idea when you can avoid this by doing regular fecal samples regardless of what you use to rid yourself of them.

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Old 11/13/09, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Briza View Post
The only reason there is no withholding time on herbs is that no studies have been done for residues in goat milk. No big financial incentive there since you cannot patent plants. There will still be residues in milk from herbs and the only reason this is ok with people is that they do not know the effects of herbal residues in milk or they assume they are benign and they assume they know that the effects of the chemical wormer residues are bad.

Waiting until a goat has pale eyelids is using her body condition and your feed dollar to raise a huge population of parasites. The animal is anemic by then -pale eyes equals blood loss-and will take a lot of support and extra nutrition to get back to optimum health not just de-worming. Famacha is great for 3rd world countries where chemicals are out of range of livestock owners purses but letting a goat host a lot of parasites is never a good idea when you can avoid this by doing regular fecal samples regardless of what you use to rid yourself of them.

B~
I agree. I might use famancha if I had a meat herd.
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  #9  
Old 11/13/09, 05:19 PM
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Also winter worms don't cause anemia, they aren't blood sucking. So the loss from cool weather bankrupt worms is meat and milk and condition of your does and her kids.

So when you do have heavy burdens do you use chemicals then? How do you know your weather is not the reason you don't have worms and not the use of the herbal wormer?

I wormed this year the day my does kidded and the weekend before breeding, they will get one more treatment worming at 150 days bred, that is considerably less chemical than bi monthly herbs that you purchase that you really have no idea of the potency or what is in each new batch. Glad to see you fecal sampling though.

Also lets make sure since it's november that herbal wormers also contain abortives like wormwood in them, not sure it's something I would be feeding my bred does. Vicki

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  #10  
Old 11/13/09, 07:35 PM
 
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Epazote!
I grew it from seed as an exotic Mexican herb.
Imagine my surprise when I found that it already grew in my fields!
I've gotten hay from all over creation and the seeds must have been in there!
It's touted as wormer.
I found that I did not care for it at all as a cooking herb, but the goats just love it!
I can't say for sure, but my goats always have had very little problems with parasite loads.

I agree with Vickie on the wormwood, that's a worrisome plant!

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Old 11/13/09, 09:34 PM
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Artemisia/wormwood is part of my native prairie pasture. The does always have access to it, so they could self-medicate if they wanted to. They still get internal parasites, so I use a chemical wormer.

My advice for natural control of worms- find out what worms your herd has, learn the life cycle, and identify ways to break that cycle. A lot of goat parasites rely on fecal-oral transmission, so make sure that dirty hooves don't get into the grain pans or hay feeders. Naturally, goats browse above their heads & break the cycle this way. A worm larvae can climb a blade of grass, but not a tree.

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Old 11/14/09, 04:35 AM
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As for pale eyelids, I check them every week when I worm. i do not wait till completely pale but I can see the slight difference.

As for the herbs not being tested. Garlic DOES not have a with holding time nor does Fenugreek, These are herbs we eat ourselves.

Wormwood does have to be given with care and it is not given to pregnant does or the milk sold to folks who are pregnant.

Just because we do things different does not mean we have not done the research.

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Old 11/14/09, 03:57 PM
 
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Steff- I don't do any meds I don't have to but after pulling local herds out of serious health decline who have opted for natural dewormers I know for a physical visual proven fact that they do not work in this region. I do fecals for people who don't want to buy a scope and learn how. I do not doubt you have read up on these products but the honest truth is there are no science based university controlled studies for herbal residues in the milk. It is great that you can get away with this because of your climate and soil type. I have a friend in Idaho that has never wormed her goats! Dry- cold-alkaline-browse only no wet pastures with lush grass and she has never wormed in years on the same farm. We just have to do what works for our region and feeding situation.
B~

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Old 11/14/09, 09:20 PM
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Herbal residues in milk? How many herbs are goats eating in the pasture or baled up in hay?

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  #15  
Old 11/23/09, 12:26 PM
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Smile Mugwort used for de worming livestock

We've been using mugwort as a natural vermifuge for our livestock for well over ten years now and have not had any issues with falling birthrates as one reader suggests. We live in a sub tropical and humid environment.

www.permacultureproduce.com.au

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Old 11/23/09, 03:47 PM
 
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i bought some of the herbal wormer from hoeggers, it didnt do the job, so i went back to safegaurd.

samm

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Old 11/23/09, 04:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians View Post
So when you do have heavy burdens do you use chemicals then? How do you know your weather is not the reason you don't have worms and not the use of the herbal wormer?
The breeder we got our goats from uses herbals and chemical when needed so we decided to try out the same. So far (one year), no issues at all. In fact, I was so paranoid that I wasn't doing the fecals right that I've taken several samples to the vet. She agreed - clean as a whistle. This summer was the end of 18 months of severe drought. So I really have no reliable data to say what the low (actually nonexistent) worm load was from.

We are now in a wet fall but there have been plenty of warm days. The fecals are now actually coming back with eggs in them but so far nothing to warrant any alarm. Still giving the herbals...still have ivermec on hand!
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  #18  
Old 11/23/09, 04:48 PM
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You do kinda get a free ride for a while when goats are new to your property. I really haven't had problems yet, after 3 years, mainly just newcomers I have to worm. We have horses and cattle roaming the same fields the goats eat from, so they help vacuum up worms.

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Old 11/23/09, 06:00 PM
 
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Madness~If you have eggs in your fecals you need to ID them to species and treat because you may be overwintering a whole population of blood suckers that will explode in the spring or just post kidding. Don't let them rob you of your feed dollar or that nice little padding of fat you worked so hard to get on your does so they can milk well next time around. Your drought helped you- the larvae cannot live long in that but obviously someone is laying eggs and there is nothing herbal that will kill HC! You may drive out a few tapes with it (not kill mind you- just make things uncomfortable so they drop in your pastures and encapsulate to wait for someone to snarf them up.) This cool down coming up would be a good time to get rid of anything resident because stages that can live outside the host will be less likely to survive in your pastures.
B~

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Old 11/23/09, 08:31 PM
 
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Briza, I have identified the eggs - they are strongyloides papillosus, had it verified by the vet. I don't recall the EPG off the top of my head but the vet said it wasn't a big deal. We are keeping a close eye.

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