Giving copper to goats

[Ezekiel's Garde]

I have given my two adults copper, in preparation for their visit with "the buck" that my goat lady thinks would breed well with the girls. However, the two little girls are just about 75 pounds, and I don't know if I should give them copper before they're bred (this will be in about 3 weeks). I only have the Copasure boluses - the ones my goat lady told me to give 1 per adult (I think it's for the calves that are around 150#?)... So, would that be too much for the little girls? If so, and they do need copper, then where would I get the copper for them? I don't have a lot of excess cash to be spending right now. Everything is pretty much budgeted for farm or family needs.

Thanks!

[nehimama]

What worked for me was to break those calf boluses down to about half size. My vet helped me out by letting me buy some empty gelcaps that were about half the size of the calf boluses. You can gently twist those open, and pour out some of the copper rods.

NeHi

Edited to add: My vet is a large animal practitioner, so had several empty gelcap sizes on hand. A small animal vet may not have these.

[LaManchaPaul]

Amy, surely the good goat-lady doesn't give the 12.5 bolus to a goat...no; not ONE WHOLE ONE per goat.

Here is some information that I've gleaned from this forum. Hope it helps you.
General site about copper deficiency:
http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html

Bolus breakdown chart:
http://saanendoah.com/cubolusdosechart.html
Pictures
http://www.u-sayranch.com/goats/copper.html

ALSO, after following the experts on this forum, I give Bo-Se 1cc/40 lb goat SubQu. to does and bucks. Inject about 3 weeks before breeding for more egg and sperm production.

Some more good reading is goatkeeping101. I've modeled my management from that site:
http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,2077.0.html
Best. Paul

[Ezekiel's Garde]

Thanks, Paul.

I can't remember, so I'll have to go out and check when I milk... I will have to get some gel-caps, then, I guess. I hope I didn't hurt my goats that were already dosed... I love them!

As far as other things to give them, they'll be getting wormed today or tomorrow, and the following injections: Bo-Se, B-Complex, and A & D.

[fishhead]

What kind of mineral do you give your goats? You many not need to bolus.

[mygoat]

Originally Posted by fishhead

What kind of mineral do you give your goats? You many not need to bolus.

I recently learned on this forum that despite there being copper in the mineral mix, it's usually copper sulfate and it is not an efficient delivery source - so though the content is high enough, it won't supply them with enough because they won't absorb it. I plan on bolusing soon now that I know that.

[Ezekiel's Garde]

My goat lady told me to bolus in addition to minerals because they just don't get enough around here.

I'm using SweetLix Milk Maker goat mineral from the feed store. It's loose.

[deafgoatlady]

Well Usually loose mineral have is copper sulfate. It is not like copper wires in the copper bolus..

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by LaManchaPaul

Amy, surely the good goat-lady doesn't give the 12.5 bolus to a goat...no; not ONE WHOLE ONE per goat.

I have found that my goats obviously need more copper than my cows. One of the 12.5 calf boluses is for calves from #150 lb to #500 lb calves. All my adult goats easily weigh well over #150 lbs except my Myotonic/Boer.

Ok, I have been doing a sort of experiment for the past three years.
My goats have all gotten the entire 12.5 copper bolus every six months. I only cut down the boluses into smaller doses for my kids.

I haven't reccomended anyone else do this, it was an experiment.

My sister started bolusing her herd last year and she does the same.

I have a friend in AR who has bolused her goats with the entire calf bolus for years now. Until I told her that it was reccomended to cut them down, she had no idea she was doing it "wrong".

So anyway, I don't think the OP has hurt their goats by giving them the entire bolus. My herd of 30+ is going strong after three years of calf-sized boluses.

[Ezekiel's Garde]

Phew! Thanks!! My goat lady even said she'd give the doelings the whole thing each. I may try to find some gel caps (only have 00 here at home) for them. I know she only boluses about once every 6 months (right before breeding and after kidding).

That being said, Dew is 115-120 and Fancy is 130-140 pounds, by the weight tape.

[suzyhomemaker09]

You can often find empty gel caps at health food stores.
I tend to follow the guidelines as well..though to be honest this is my first year trying boluses.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

With the dosage of 1 gram per 22 pounds of copper oxide in the bolus you can see that a whole bolus is for 275 pounds worth of goat. I just don't get it....we have all the reasearch on this subject, done on goats, and yet your not going to listen to it? Everything we do in goats is guessing until a breeder spends time and money on a project themselves...copper, worming, cocci, the push to teach the world to fecal, medications that we have blood levels on that show us that things like Pennicillin are out of the blood stream completely at 12 hours, liver biopsy numbers to show exactly how much bolus to give, CIDR info.....not one cent paid for by anybody but breeders....nope don't get it at all. I can't even imagine reading something on the interenet and just doing it without reading the science that comes with it, Joyce has done the science on saanendoah.com Our advice past that has to be to do no harm until we run our own tests. Vicki

[susanne]

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

I have found that my goats obviously need more copper than my cows. One of the 12.5 calf boluses is for calves from #150 lb to #500 lb calves. All my adult goats easily weigh well over #150 lbs except my Myotonic/Boer.

Ok, I have been doing a sort of experiment for the past three years.
My goats have all gotten the entire 12.5 copper bolus every six months. I only cut down the boluses into smaller doses for my kids.

I haven't reccomended anyone else do this, it was an experiment.

My sister started bolusing her herd last year and she does the same.

I have a friend in AR who has bolused her goats with the entire calf bolus for years now. Until I told her that it was reccomended to cut them down, she had no idea she was doing it "wrong".

So anyway, I don't think the OP has hurt their goats by giving them the entire bolus. My herd of 30+ is going strong after three years of calf-sized boluses.

emilly i do the same.
all my adults are getting the whole bolus. only the younger does that are around 100lb or so, i would make smaller one.
i have not started to give bolus to my kids but i might do it this fall. of course for them i would brake the bolus down too.

[pookshollow]

With the dosage of 1 gram per 22 pounds of copper oxide in the bolus you can see that a whole bolus is for 275 pounds worth of goat.

That's how I'm dosing it - 1 gram copper oxide per 22 pounds of goat. I don't subscribe to the "If a little is good, a whole lot must be that much better" school of thought.

[Wags]

I am using Mineral Max EAD paste - and would love it if someone here with the knowledge could look at the ingredient list and tell me what they think:

INGREDIENTS:
Vitamin A, not less than 4,400,000IU/kg;
Vitamin D, not less than 220,000IU/kg;
Vitamin E, not less than 33,000IU/kg;
Magnesium, not less than 0.95%;
Potassium, not less than 0.95%;
Zinc, not less than 6,100ppm;
Manganese, not less than 2,500ppm;
Copper, not less than 6,100ppm;
Cobalt, not less than 400ppm;
Selenium, not less than 60ppm

All minerals are supposed to be "chelated" which supposedly means they are more readily absorbed by the body. Dosing is 5cc for 110-200lbs so I am giving my adult Nigerians 2.5 cc once a month along with access to loose minerals. Kids over the age of 3 months are getting 1 cc monthly. I've only been using this since July, and gave it every 2 weeks for the first 6 weeks and then monthly thereafter.

[ozark_jewels]

Ok people, I only posted my experience to eleviate the fears of the OP. Like what I do with *my* herd or not, they are living, healthy proof that entire calf bolus will probably not hurt the OP's goats. Which was the whole and only point to my post.

I have no problem experimenting with my own herd and will continue with the copper at the dose I have used very successfully with my own herd.

FYI, I always encourage people to copper bolus if needed and then I send them to the Saanendoah website for dosages. I am not telling anyone to "do as I do", though I now know it works due to my own "breeder study".
I'll not apologize for posting my experiences and you can make of that what you will.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by Wags

I am using Mineral Max EAD paste - and would love it if someone here with the knowledge could look at the ingredient list and tell me what they think:

INGREDIENTS:
Vitamin A, not less than 4,400,000IU/kg;
Vitamin D, not less than 220,000IU/kg;
Vitamin E, not less than 33,000IU/kg;
Magnesium, not less than 0.95%;
Potassium, not less than 0.95%;
Zinc, not less than 6,100ppm;
Manganese, not less than 2,500ppm;
Copper, not less than 6,100ppm;
Cobalt, not less than 400ppm;
Selenium, not less than 60ppm

All minerals are supposed to be "chelated" which supposedly means they are more readily absorbed by the body. Dosing is 5cc for 110-200lbs so I am giving my adult Nigerians 2.5 cc once a month along with access to loose minerals. Kids over the age of 3 months are getting 1 cc monthly. I've only been using this since July, and gave it every 2 weeks for the first 6 weeks and then monthly thereafter.

The only sure-fire way would be to use it instead of Bo-Se and copper boluses and compare the health of the herd. I'm supremely happy with my copper and Bo-Se twice a year, so I hesitate to change.

[jerryf]

WAGS
Where do you get Mineral Max EAD paste ?

Jerry

[Wags]

Originally Posted by jerryf

WAGS
Where do you get Mineral Max EAD paste ?

Jerry

Some farm stores carry it and you can also get it on-line from vet supply places. Just google the name.

ozark_jewels - I don't do Bo-Se or copper boluses. Prior to starting Mineral Max I was giving selenium paste and free minerals w/copper. My one goat that I thought was looking a little like she was getting a fish tail seems to have improved.

[Laverne]

I like the copper needle bolus treatment since the needles slowly disintegrate, over months, keeping the copper levels up at 'AT ALL Times'. It is a hassle to drench every couple weeks or so to keep the copper levels up. For me anyway.