HELP! Muscular tremors, subnormal temp, listles...

[CountryGoalie]

To start off: I have already called the vet's office. All of the vets are on the road, and they'll give me a call when they can. I thought I'd post here as well to get your ideas, especially since I have doctor's appointments myself today and am hoping that they'll try to reach me when I'm not on the exam table.

Last week, I noticed that our one doe seemed ... just... not herself, and I mentioned it to my mother, and we were keeping an eye on her, but she was still eating, et cetera. I went out of state this weekend for a wedding, and my mother was taking care of all of the animals. While I was gone, she called to say that she wasn't going out and eating with the others, was remaining up underneath the "shed" cover off the side of the barn, so she separated her out.

She has been giving her ProBios orally, as well as "Power Punch High Potency Goat Nutrient and Energy Drench" from TSC. We also have Strongid Paste (pyrantel pamoate) on hand, but she didn't give her any because she was afraid to hit her system with chemicals if it's already compromised.

As of this morning, she:
Barely picked at her feed, nibbled at the hay when I gave it to her.
Has diarrhea.
Her gut/rumen appears inactive (this is why my mother picked up the ProBios this weekend.)
Has a temperature of just 100.0, assuming that our digital thermometer is still accurate - we've had it for a few years, from when we used to raise dogs, but it appears to be functioning normally.
Is trembling.

She still has enough fight in her that she was giving me all the fire she had in her, to keep from getting on the stand (she's never liked the stand) so that I could secure her to dose her with ProBios and the drench. I considered worming her, but again, I don't want to throw too much at her system, and I'm too new to goats to know whether or not this would be too much for her.

As I said, we're new to goats - this past year was our first kidding season, et cetera. We've haven't even had our does for a year, and having been doing a lot more reading lately, I realize we weren't the wisest in how we got them. We got them off Craigslist, didn't really get a lot of info. In retrospect, yeah, not wise, but I'm trying to fix that now. I don't know if it's too late, but...

So, long story short, having been reading on the internet at places like Fiasco Farm and such... we didn't do BoSe shots for our does, et cetera. So I'm wondering if this is White Muscle Disease? Their info on "Milk Fever" sounds like some of the symptoms are the same, too. There are just so many things it could be, I'm not sure what to do. Also, she had a single kid in early May, and the doeling basically weaned herself off before we even realized it, and she seems to have dried up without an issue. Could it still be milk fever? The website I was reading seemed to imply that milk fever didn't have to be when they're actually in milk.

We did lose a five-month-old weanling doe (not hers) a month ago, to what we thought was coccidiosis - we had weaned all of the bucks and put the on a meat finisher feed that has a coccidios preventative med in it - but didn't put the doelings in there. She went downhill fast, and we chalked it up to coccidiosis due to her age and that sort of thing. We also have ducks who free-range through their pasture, and I know that poultry can carry that. But from what I'm reading, coccidios rarely affects adult goats. Is this true? Or could that be her problem? But then I'm not seeing "muscular trembling" as a symptom of that on any sites I'm reading.

I'm feeling totally overwhelmed right now by this... doesn't help that I have doctor's appointments myself today... any help would be muchly appreciated. This is my favorite goat in the entire herd, she's just such a sweetie... I really don't want to lose her but I'm clueless. Lesson learned, I suppose... *sigh*

[Cannon_Farms]

The symptoms have been going on too long is a good thing as we can rule out a few things.
What color are her eyelids? How much does she weigh?
The wormer you have is very mild, I would give her three times the horse dose and then tomorrow go back to tsc and get some quest and give it to her as that wormer you have is going to kill some but not near what you think it would or should.
If you have b12 give that to her instead of the drench or you can give thiamine. Some minerals that most of us are lacking can actually be the right amount in some areas, typically NY doesnt have much of a problem with selienum and if you where to give her a mass dose you can do more harm than good which is why you need to know about what you already have in feed and hay before you can give more/less.
Sorry got off track sorta, with the b12 your doing a good bit to make her feel better and get hungry, since its water soulable you cant od it like you can the drench.

Personally, I would get some fecal samples and take them to the vet asap to get treatment or rule out parasites.

[Cannon_Farms]

Oh, if you have ivomect horse wormer or cattle, I would give her that instead of the pyrentel as if in the remote possiblity you are dealing with the deer worm that will kill it, still use the quest/cydectin but not in the same day.

[Sweet Goats]

I would give her some Vit B12 to stimulant her appetite. Her temp is low and you need to get it up. Have you had a fecal run on her?

[moonspinner]

You don't say when or if you wormed this doe previously. Yes, check her eyelids and gums for color. She may be anemic. How is her weight? Adults, unless you're getting into some serious disease don't commonly have loose stool unless they've eaten something strange or cocci. I would get a fecal first and worm her. In the meantime B complex and Probios for support.
Please let us know how the vet call went.

[Sweet Goats]

Any news yet?

[Patty0315]

If she is in milk then she needs calcuim. NOW not later low temp and you loose them . Any doe in milk who refuses food should be examined and if nothing else shows up they get calcuim CMPK to be exact .

Safeguard is a crappy wormer that does not work most places . At least move up to ivermectin . BO_SE b vitamins are always a good starting place.


Patty

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Just a few more things to remember with a problem like this. You are likely now treating a death process and not the actual syptoms of the disease that started this. Anemia from cocci or worms (we have the Famacha chart up on dairygoatinfo.com in goatkeeping101, check her ye color against this anemia chart) they are blood suckers, by the time you see diarrhea or bottle jaw the problem is huge, it takes more than just worming them or using a cocci med to get them over this.

Metobolic crash, milk fever, a doe who is in milk and not recieving any calcium or if you have not dealth with the defficency of copper, selenium or over abudnance of iron in your goats diet, even too much protein and molassas can cause rumen acidosis, and this lack of calcium from these will bring on a crash of the system....muscle tremors, down in the rear, no milk, lethargy. But all of the above also is cause by the death process from something as simple as anemia from cocci and worms. So is this low temp from milk fever? We have no idea.

Pnemonia, is nearly always along with dehydration that cause of death in a goat, the lungs fill with fluid, the rumen slows, she is not eating or drinking, and giving oral liquid into a rumen isn't helping, you have to IV or subq fluids. So they die.

It's why vets will tell you sheep and goats are just looking for a place to die, the subtle things you see when you have had them a long time, aren't seen by new people. New people won't test their goats or learn to fecal, won't learn to pull blood because it all sounds way to hard to learn, when in fact none of it is more than the cost of one goat. With help you can pull this doe out of this, but with probios and a majic goat elixire that is nothing more than propolyn glycol that is also acidifiying her rumen...probiotics have no benefits to the rumen only to the intestine...of course she is going to fail. Vicki

[susanne]

the rumen is the furnace of the goat. if that is not working, temperature is dropping and the doe will die.
you need to find out why the rumen is not working. heavy parasite load can be the cause. eaten something she shouldn't have could be another reason.