Can you copper bolus a pregnant goat?

[Wonderland]

One of my goats that I bought recently needs copper- fish tail, rough coat. Though the other "new" ones aren't showing signs of needing it, I want to bolus them all at the same time. Is it okay to give a copper bolus to my pregnant one? I don't want to do anything that could hurt her pregnancy.

Thanks

[Backfourty,MI.]

Hopefully someone else will tell you what they think but it seems like I asked the same question early in the spring & bolused all mine at the same time. I beleive mine was only about 3 months along at the time & she had triplets.

[mpete]

I know that a copper defiency can cause birth defects, so I don't see why you wouldnt be able to do it..... All the loose minerals that we feed have copper in them, too

[Wonderland]

That's true, and they do have loose goat mineral available all the time.

She's due in November, so that makes her...around 2 months along. I don't know the exact date she is due.

[deafgoatlady]

I remember that Vicki told me that it is safe to give copper for pregnants and to the young goats too because copper is a mineral traced. That is all..

[Wonderland]

Thanks I guess I'll go for it, then.

[hoofinitnorth]

Yes, by all means bolus if she needs it.

[Pony]

When we bought our doe, Emily gave her a copper bolus. She's looking great now, and will probably come into heat in a month or so (hopefully later rather than sooner!)

We feed cattle mineral, and both the doe and the buckling look fantastic: healthy, shiny coats; good color; active, bright, and alert.

Now for my questions: Is it possible for them to be getting enough copper from the minerals? Also, the minerals have selenium. Should I still get Bo-Se before she's bred? And no sign of worms, so I'd like to hold off on that unless she absolutely HAS to have a wormer.

[Wonderland]

Well, I know mine don't get enough from their mineral. I use Sweetlix (got it from Jefferslivestock.com), but I have still had to bolus all of my goats. Two weren't showing the signs, but I assumed they needed it anyways. The other ones developed the fishtail and rough coat, and faded hair color.

Now that they've been bolused (well, the ones that it has started to show on) their fur is darker, sleeker, and shinier

[Pony]

Originally Posted by Wonderland

Well, I know mine don't get enough from their mineral. I use Sweetlix (got it from Jefferslivestock.com), but I have still had to bolus all of my goats. Two weren't showing the signs, but I assumed they needed it anyways. The other ones developed the fishtail and rough coat, and faded hair color.

Now that they've been bolused (well, the ones that it has started to show on) their fur is darker, sleeker, and shinier

How can you tell if they need it for sure?

I have no problem giving them a copper supplement if they need it, but I am not crazy about automatically medicating them just because it's a certain date on the calendar, KWIM?

My goats have wonderfully shiny fur, very sleek and pet-able. (Is that a word? It is now, I just used it. )

What's "fishtail"?

[ozark_jewels]

Ok, first off please do not think of copper bolusing or giving Bo-Se as "medicating". It is not medicating. Copper, Selenium and vitamin e are essential vitamins and minerals that the goat needs and in our area at least, has a hard time getting in their diets. It is keeping their bodies at their natural best so they do not need medicating.
Yes, Troubles still needs her pre-breeding and pre-kidding Bo-Se and I would copper bolus again the day she kids. Also, since she is just a yearling, I would *certainly* worm her before breeding(now would be good for the Bo-Se and worming since the buck is running with her), and of course on the day she kids. You do not want a growing, pregnant young doe to be struggling with worms and stunting her growth and productivity. When she is full-grown and mature, then do a fecal before breeding if you want to skip worming if possible. Thats your call.
So CD&T, worm and Bo-Se that girl as she could be getting bred anytime(could already be for that matter!), and copper bolus and worm the day she kids. Don't forget to do the same to the bucky boy.
Don't forget to CD&T and Bo-Se about two weeks before she kids. This will help cover her kids.

[nehimama]

Question; I noticed a couple of my girls had the "fish tail" and gave them a copper bolus. How long would I expect it to be before the "fish tail" goes away?

Thanks!

NeHi

[Cannon_Farms]

A warning for anyone that may not know, many copper deficency symtoms are also the same if they are at toxic levels (too high). Both copper and selienum can be toxic if gaven too much so some math work should be done anytime your going to do something along those lines.
You need to know whats in your soil, whats in the soil where your hay is from if its not local, what your feed and minerals have in them before you can properly know what your goats need, and then there is still guess work to a degree.
As far as pregnant goats, unless its at a toxic dose level I have never read anything to say its not safe, according to the last dairy goat jurnal I read it had an artical on copper and the toxic level had not been determined in goats and all we have is what is toxic to cows.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

Ok, first off please do not think of copper bolusing or giving Bo-Se as "medicating". It is not medicating. Copper, Selenium and vitamin e are essential vitamins and minerals that the goat needs and in our area at least, has a hard time getting in their diets. It is keeping their bodies at their natural best so they do not need medicating.
Yes, Troubles still needs her pre-breeding and pre-kidding Bo-Se and I would copper bolus again the day she kids. Also, since she is just a yearling, I would *certainly* worm her before breeding(now would be good for the Bo-Se and worming since the buck is running with her), and of course on the day she kids. You do not want a growing, pregnant young doe to be struggling with worms and stunting her growth and productivity. When she is full-grown and mature, then do a fecal before breeding if you want to skip worming if possible. Thats your call.
So CD&T, worm and Bo-Se that girl as she could be getting bred anytime(could already be for that matter!), and copper bolus and worm the day she kids. Don't forget to do the same to the bucky boy.
Don't forget to CD&T and Bo-Se about two weeks before she kids. This will help cover her kids.

I was mostly concerned about overdosing with the stuff. You can have too much of even essential minerals, especially if they're fat-stored. (Don't know how copper, selenium, and such are stored in goats.)

How often do you normally worm? To be frank, I forgot to worm them when I got them home, and didn't do it until about 6 weeks ago. If I run a fecal and it comes up negative (which I strongly suspect it may), do you still think I should worm?

Don't want to overdo, but if you think I should, I will totally go on your say-so. These goats didn't get this gorgeous and healthy by accident, and I want to make sure I continue in whatever you did to get them to this point.

ARGH! Almost forgot about the vaccines -- thanks for that reminder!

As for breeding, I'm keeping a close on those two. Bow is trying his best to convince Trub that she's in heat, but she most definitely is NOT. She keeps telling him so, but that boy won't take "No" for an answer.

Sometimes, it's funny. Sometimes, it's irritating, like when they knock down the milking stand and everything else in their path. Nick and I make up funny dialog about what they're saying to each other, like this:

Troubles: I am NOT that kind of girl!

Bow Tie: You most certainly ARE!


Ahem. CD&T, Bo-Se, Cydectin...

[Wonderland]

Originally Posted by Pony

How can you tell if they need it for sure?

I have no problem giving them a copper supplement if they need it, but I am not crazy about automatically medicating them just because it's a certain date on the calendar, KWIM?

My goats have wonderfully shiny fur, very sleek and pet-able. (Is that a word? It is now, I just used it. )

What's "fishtail"?

If you scroll down on this page, it has a picture of a "fishtail"- http://www.u-sayranch.com/goats/copper.html#photos


I knew mine needed it because of their coat condition. Also, I've been told that the land here is high in a mineral that binds with the copper (might have been sulfur, can't remember 100% for sure.) I was told this buy the lady we buy our milk from, who literally lives just down the road and has had her land tested. So I'm planning on bolusing on a regular schedule now.

The way I understand it, and if I'm wrong PLEASE correct me, but I think the bolus goes to a different stomach than what they eat goes to. If I understand correctly, even if they were getting enough copper from loose minerals or the food or foliage, the fact that they're getting a lot of another mineral that binds with it makes it not work. The other mineral binding with it somehow prevents it from being absorbed correctly/enough. But when you bolus, because it's in a different stomach it doesn't bind with the other mineral that they ingest that would cause it not to work. I *think*. It was hard for me to really understand when I researched it and was told about it, but that's the best I could grasp it.

[ozark_jewels]

Ok, if you just dewormed them 6 weeks ago, no, I would not re-worm now. Your goats are unlikely to have a heavy wormload seeing as how they are on a small area and it has never had goats before. Of course, the longer you have goats, the heavier wormload your land will carry, so be aware of that.

You will not overdo the selenium if its give pre-breeding and pre-kidding. In fact, it is not stored over a month in the body if I remember correctly. So you could give it every month and you would still be ok. I once did my does three months in a row and all was well. My bottle kids get Bo-Se every other month for their first six months.

You will not be overdoing the copper to give it yearly, in fact it is reccomended to give the copper boluses every six months.

Yes, don't forget the CD&T. Its easy for me to remember their twice yearly boosters because I give it pre-breeding and pre-kidding along with Bo-Se, copper, and worming if needed.

A lot of times when their bodies get the selenium boost, it will kick them into heat if they are not already cycling........so watch her closely for heat signs after giving it. I gave my herd CD&T, Bo-Se and copper a week and 1/2 ago and in the last three days have bred 15 does....Yes, I *am* crazy.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

A lot of times when their bodies get the selenium boost, it will kick them into heat if they are not already cycling........so watch her closely for heat signs after giving it. I gave my herd CD&T, Bo-Se and copper a week and 1/2 ago and in the last three days have bred 15 does....Yes, I *am* crazy.

Well, we all know you're a little crazy -- aren't we all?

Maybe I should hold off on giving it for a couple or three more weeks, so I don't have to be out there in the bitter cold and Troubles won't be kidding in nasty weather.

<Pony! counts back 5 months on her fingers>

I think I'll hold off until October.

Yeah.

BTW -- can Bow's insistence do anything to help "kick in" her heat cycle? He really is following her around like a teenager in lust. I can tell the difference between her "I'm lonely come out and talk to me" noise and her "GET THIS STUPID BUCKLING OFF MY BACK ALREADY" noise.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by Pony

Well, we all know you're a little crazy -- aren't we all?

Maybe I should hold off on giving it for a couple or three more weeks, so I don't have to be out there in the bitter cold and Troubles won't be kidding in nasty weather.

<Pony! counts back 5 months on her fingers>

I think I'll hold off until October.

Yeah.

BTW -- can Bow's insistence do anything to help "kick in" her heat cycle? He really is following her around like a teenager in lust. I can tell the difference between her "I'm lonely come out and talk to me" noise and her "GET THIS STUPID BUCKLING OFF MY BACK ALREADY" noise.

Having a buck in with her will absolutely help bring her into heat. Also, I imagine she will start cycling very soon if she hasn't already. Probably the next cool morning you have. Not giving her Bo-Se won't hold her back on that, it may just give you a lower conception rate.

[Pony]

Picking it up at the large animal vet's today, and will dose her (and the buckling) forthwith.

Poor little Bow Tie! He's sort of given up today, it seems, but we've had some seriously scary t-storms coming through here. Last night, the largest tree in Goat Glen was struck by lightning! Fortunately, it's a weed tree, so it didn't explode, but it shot off some huge chunks of bark.

Impressive, and now the buckling is strangely quiet when there's thunder.

Silly goats! I love them so!