little buck seems sick

greenhorn · #1 07/08/09, 08:27 PM

I need some opinions and advice, please. We have a 4 m.o. buck whcih I got about 1 month ago. He was raised on a very well-established farm with seemingly a great start. He's been fine until tonight:

He is walking around very "carefully" (not trotting and prancing around like he usually does) but most notably he is holding his head straight out parallel to the ground, maybe dipped a little. No fever that I can tell and wanted to eat grain from my hand.

He has changed feed since we got him, we worked him off the Power Pellets he was eating to a grain/sweet feed "show quality" ration. He is also now on pasture instead of the hay he used to get.

He's the only intact male, and is housed and pastures with 2 adult does, 2 does his age, 1 wether his age and three babies (we're selling some soon!, but the part of the barn they're in is 30X15 and is open to the fenced 3 acre pasture).

Could it be a urinary tract problem, the calcium thing? Is there a quick relief for that (plus a preventative routine?). There aren't any sounds coming from his gut, like really gassy sounds.

I was thinking about someone here who posted their goat died and after a necroscopy they found a mass of packed grass. I hope that isn't it!

Any ideas would be very helpful until I can call the vet. Thanks so much!

Cannon_Farms · #2 07/08/09, 09:02 PM

Dont rule out first symtoms of polio either, especially with the feed changes. get him where you can see him pee, it wouldnt hurt to dose him with a b complex or thiamin if you have it, its nothing you can od them on, if you dont have anything else red cell can work but also has allot of things in it that you can od them on.
If he acts like he cant see right, or keep his balance it can be polio or listorosis (sp?), if hes straining to pee its probably the urinary stones, if he doesnt eat or poop, well then it can be a blockage, all of which have the symtoms you said so try to observe him for a bit, I would dose him with the b12 as even if its not polio it wouldnt hurt.

Cannon_Farms · #3 07/08/09, 09:03 PM

Please view my thread on sick doeling dont know with what and click on the link about polio, its a great learning link

greenhorn · #4 07/08/09, 10:06 PM

Well, he's not dizzy or wobbly....in fact he runs off when I try to get him (unusual for him). He runs and dodges, but as soon as he's out of my range he just stands there again. I saw him poop, but no pee yet. I managed to catch him and he seemed to be comforted by being stroked on the head and talked to softly. He ate a couple comfrey leaves.

I'm wondering if he tried something with one of the does and got butted hard. The've never been more than playfully aggressive with him, but maybe he pushed the limit this time. If he's OK I'll be looking to get him his separate housing set up ASAP.

fishhead · #5 07/09/09, 06:42 AM

If you watch him get up after laying you should be able to see if he's peeing.

Usually when goats go "off" all feed except hay is withdrawn. That helps calm the gut.

Yes there is a cure dose and a preventative dose for ammonium chloride. Google Fiasco farm for the dose.

Good luck!

Feral Nature · #6 07/09/09, 01:47 PM

If he were mine, I would get him off that sweet feed and just feed him hay. No browse for now. Then as he improves, I would slowly start him of alfalfa pellets and no grain or sweetfeed at all. I would worm him now with Cydectin 1cc/22 lbs orally. I would also take a temp and also a baseline temp of 2 herd mates. That's a start.

Cannon_Farms · #7 07/09/09, 02:17 PM

from what i have read, because it effects the eyesight, the adrinline from something coming up on them can overide whats going on, hopefully hes peed and gotten better by now though.

Backfourty,MI. · #8 07/09/09, 03:51 PM

I don't know what's wrong with your little guy but I agree with some others here. I would give him Hay only. No grain, sweet feed, etc.
I would also make sure he pee's & you see a good stream. Good luck & hope he's feeling better.
Let us know how he's doing.

greenhorn · #9 07/09/09, 11:26 PM

Thanks for the advice so far!

Dante is basically the same. He just stands as still as possible with his head down and out. It almost seems as though when he does move, he's trying to protect his "package", like he got racked or something. I was wondering if he got butted really hard by an adult doe, but he doesn't flinch at all when I palpitate him anywhere. I can feel the urinary tract, but no bumps or heat.

He had a booster of CD&T vaccine about 5 days ago...could he be reacting to this. Please don't tell me I'm not suppossed to give this to a buck....

I have yet to see him pee, but I'm not down in the barn all the time. I will try the sheet around him idea, or actually I think I will diaper him with some of dh's briefs, so I can see if he pees or if there's blood or something. He's pooping at least.

I hope I figure this out fast! He's not made a sound the whole time, so at least he's not in severe pain, but he's certainly sick. OK, off to check him. thanks for any insights

fishhead · #10 07/10/09, 06:58 AM

The vaccine booster is good for bucks too.

Have you taken his temp?

Try sneaking up on him while he's laying down. Then when he stands up he should pee soon after.

greenhorn · #11 07/10/09, 08:11 AM

Yes, his temp is 103.8. He's the same this morning, just more wobbly from being sick for awhile. I'm afraid of him getting dehydrated from lack of interested in getting up to drink, so I'll probably try to give him some fluids with a bottle or syringe. He did poop again this morning.

I'll go put those briefs on again. He got out of dh's, so I'll put a pair of my boy's on.

Anyone ever notice the predictably bad timing of an animal getting sick? This is the first week I've worked since April so I keep having to leave poor Dante, and dh decided to buy a car 2100 miles away and drive it back, so I haven't seen him for 3 days! Oh well, at least the other animals are doing well and my kids are healthy and enjoying their extended "no rules" time until daddy's back. No rules time here means messy crafts, forts in the dining room, no school (we homeschool) and way too much fun food. But I digress.......off to pants the goat and then to work

Backfourty,MI. · #12 07/10/09, 10:33 AM

Try putting some Apple cider vinegar in his water. All my goats Really LOVE it & will drink it right up everyday before the regular water! I'm thinking it will get him drinking.
Is he eating any hay? Have you tried a favorite snack of his?
Urinary Calculi I think is kinda unusual in a young buck of only 4 months but I guess anything is possible.
Are you sure it isn't Listerios or Goat Polio?

Minelson · #13 07/10/09, 09:34 PM

How is he tonight? I hope he is getting better

greenhorn · #14 07/11/09, 12:15 AM

Ugh, I tried to post before and it got "lost" somewhere. So this will be brief.

Not better

, but stangely hungry. He's been chowing down on feed pellets (doesn't seem to want the hay much) but is still standing very still with his head parallel to the ground. But now he is tilting his head to one side, like he's trying to get water out of his ear after being in the pool.

I've been palpating him all over (yes, all over) looking for some clue and he doesn't ever wince or move while I'm doing it. If it was UT related, wouldn't he wince when I was feeling for lumps?

His fever peaked at 104.7, but that was this afternoon. I'm tempted to inject antibiotics just to see if that will help but all I have is Oxymiacin for calf-related pnemonia and things.

I'm going to read some more and maybe find a clue. Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement. I really don't want to lose this guy!

Cannon_Farms · #15 07/11/09, 05:42 AM

if you give the b complex, it will stain the urine a bright yellow and maybe you can tell. I cant say im not worried if it was the urinary problem that you migh lose him as all that toxic fluid is building up and his bladder will rupture its vital that you see him pee.

fishhead · #16 07/11/09, 06:59 AM

I think I would treat him for listeriosis with PenG. The head twist reminds me of the wether I lost. When he was at his worst before I put him down his head and neck were rotated so his left ear was down.

I also wonder if he didn't get thumped a little too hard in a head butting contest.

Starsmom · #17 07/11/09, 07:07 AM

With UC, they will stand and stretch and stretch and strain to urinate. They will also cry and it is horrible. They will stand and stretch and grunt and groan and cry in pain. If it is UC, you should without a doubt know it, especially if it has been several days. Just think of it like this, how do you feel when you are on a long car ride and can't find a restroom? Then to go for days? It is an unbearable pain. If he isn't in pain, it is not likely it is UC. He might not be urinating because he is dehydrated. I think I would look in another direction other than UC.

Backfourty,MI. · #18 07/11/09, 10:49 AM

Wether it is UC or another problem I would stop giving him the pellets. I would only give him Hay because if his calcium to phosphorus ratio is off(other things can also figure into the problem as well) it can cause him to have UC & problems that way.

Alot of folks here will tell you the same thing.....bucks & wethers don't need any grain or pellets.
Some may never have the problem but others do, once & hopefully you never will but if you ever have that problem with 1 of your males you'll never want to go through it again.

I sure hope you can figure out his problem pretty soon. With a fever I would think infection or Listerios?

Bricheze · #19 07/11/09, 11:56 AM

That seems really odd. I don't know what to tell you, either then getting him off the grain. Why did you put him on the grain in the first place?

SheriM · #20 07/11/09, 12:48 PM

I agree that this doesn't sound like UC. He would be in pain by now and straining to pee. The head tilt really worries me. That is a classic sign of either listeriosis or polio. I would get some thiamine into him ASAP as well as penicillin. Good luck and let us know how it's going.