Am I drying her off wrong?

[Cheryl aka JM]

Two weeks ago I bought what looks like a nubian doe in milk~ no kids on her. I bought her at a sale barn~ so I don't have any background info on her. She was pretty.....thats why I bought her (and yes I've been keeping her away from my other goats)

She was only milking about a cup in the morning and a cup in the evening so I guessed she was drying off. Then she came down with a cold~ not surprising after the sale barn. So I decided to dry her off and feed her up good so that next freshening maybe I could play at milking her. With such a small milk production I went ahead with the advice I read in Storey's which was to just stop milking her. That was about 9 days ago~ and the cold seems to be better (she was uninterested in food for a couple days but is back to eating like a goat!). The bag is fuller than I've ever seen it~ and I just spotted her milking herself. Reaching underneath herself and biting at her own nipples. Is this normal? How long should it take for her bag to stop looking so full and obviously being uncomfortable for her?

[Idahoe]

You can milk her out when her bag looks uncomfortable. You don't want her self nursing, a very bad habit to break, esp when you want that milk yourself!

You won't cause her to stay in milk (not likely anyway) by relieving the pressure. Don't empty the udder, just take the edge off. It worked good for my does, and some were harder to dry up than others. Just had to watch them and relieve the pressure.

Some people do a mastitis prevention treatment at this time too. I've not done it so I don't have the skinny on that

[pookshollow]

What are you feeding her? If you're trying to feed her up now, before she's dried off, she'll produce milk. Just grass hay and restrict her water intake - by that, I mean don't give her water free-choice, but do give her water!

Once she's dried off, you can start to feed her and get her body condition up.

[Cheryl aka JM]

Actually because she is in quarantine away from the other goats she is on medicated goat chow which she gets at night in the evenings......and because she is a better sport about it than any other goat I have ever met she also gets to be tied out to eat the lawn most of the day. She just got over the cold she developed~ if she continues to appear to be in good health for another week or two I'll let her into one of the pastures then. But for about a week when the cold was really snotting her nose up I don't think she ate anything at all~ I know she didn't eat the goat chow and I never saw her munching at the weeds she was tied out in either. That’s why we decided to dry her off~ we were having fun playing at milking her and only getting a very little milk.....but we didn't want her using all of her energy reserves making milk for us to play with when she needed that energy for getting over the cold. Now that she is feeling better, no more snot pouring out of her, she has been eating the weeds and the goat chow more like I would expect.

I went ahead and milked out both sides until they looked and felt like they were BEFORE milking before. Still milk in there~ but only the little bit she was producing in 12 hours before. What I pulled off her was 3 cups though! She's was only producing 1 cup a milking before. I wasn't sure what to do with the milk~ so I went ahead and strained it and put it in a bottle in the freezer until I decide if it is fit to be consumed by human or goat kid (what do y'all think? I'm sure for y'all with doe's producing a lot 3 cups is nothing......but as I stood there poised to pour it down the sink I just couldn't bring myself to do it!)

About how long should it take for her body to figure out to stop making the milk? And should I go back to milking her twice a day until I can put her out on the pasture? We've been having a lot of fun playing with having a milking goat.......but we want to get her healthy and keep her for a long time. She's a pretty little thing with a great personality.......quickly becoming the "favorite goat"!

[Alice In TX/MO]

Consider that she may have been at the sale barn because she IS a self sucker.

[Cheryl aka JM]

I don't actually know if thats gonna bother me much. I didn't even know such a thing was a possibility until I saw her doing it last night~ and then I came in and told my husband I had no prayer of drying off that goat if she was self milking!

So~ the only times I've ever actually seen her doing it was last night when the bag was engorged. But if she keeps it up~ is there any way to put a stop to it?

[Idahoe]

Yes, tape her teats up with 1 inch silk medical tape. One strip over the length (covers the orifice) and one NOT TIGHT piece around the top to keep the first piece in place.

I painted a little tobasco over the tape, not on the skin, which didn't stop her from trying, but the tape worked pretty good. I don't know what taste goats hate that won't hurt their skin, but that's an idea too.

[Idahoe]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Consider that she may have been at the sale barn because she IS a self sucker.

Exactly, it can make her worthless if you want her for milk.

[Cheryl aka JM]

okay~ I'll keep an eye on that. At this point I like her enough to keep her just because she's pretty and personable. Even if I can't get milk from her if she gets along with the herd when I put her out she'll still be welcome here. So I guess it really depends on how she gets along with the herd~ currently 1 boar buck, 2 boar does, 1 boar/kiko doe and soon to include this Nubian girl we are discussing and one more probable Nubian (who is a lunatic wild goat and I doubt I'll ever be able to milk).

I was having fun with milking her~ maybe I'll start watching for a good dairy doe.....but at this point our herd is mostly brush eaters who make some meat. Would be nice if they were brush eaters that make some meat AND milk......but I'm not looking at serious dairy.....more just the ability to play at it and make a little chease and ice cream occasionally!

Do you think the Bitter Apple spray I use to make the dogs stop chewing on stuff would work? It seemed to work when I sprayed it on the steer calfs penis to make the others stop sucking on him.

[Cheryl aka JM]

It's been over a month without me milking her at all. I don't watch her 24/7 but I've not seen her self nursing since that one time. But her bag still LOOKS full. Should I be concerned?

[luvzmybabz]

How does it feel? Hard, Hot, Full, does it look red?

[AnnaS]

Probably ok. The milk producing tissue in the udder shrinks but doesn't go away during the dry period. My does' dry udders usually look smaller than their milked-out milking udders, but not by a whole lot.

[Cheryl aka JM]

I JUST took pics of her udder. It doesn't feel any warmer to me than the rest of her body does. She is looking a little better filled out than she did in the hips~ though still too skinny I think~ and she is over the cold, coughing, snotty that made us go ahead and try to dry her off to start with:




And here is a pic of her whole body so you can see her general condition~ I think she is still too thin~ but she is starting to fill out a bit more than when we got her (she is the peachy colored doe in front):

[pookshollow]

No, that's not a full udder. I have a NubianX that looks pretty much like that now and she's been dry for a while.

The lighter coloured doe in the background looks awfully thin to me, worse than the one in front - what's going on with her? Is she milking heavily? I have a mutt goat that looks a bit thin right now, but she's nursing twins and appears to be one of those goats that milks off her back.

[Cheryl aka JM]

Well I wasn't sure what to do and she looked so uncomfortable that I went ahead and milked her dry this morning (apparently while Pookshollow was posting). I milked each teat into a different jar and one of them definitely looks "off". We don't intend to drink the milk but I've not disposed of it yet ~ thinking about feeding it to the dogs:


Here is another pic of the milk from each teat where you can really see the color difference



The white goat in that pic is a 1/2 Saanen and 1/2 nubian that I actually bought just yesterday AS a milk goat because we had been trying to dry Peaches off and I still wanted to do the goat milk thing. I bought her from a lady in TN with a lot of milk goats. When I saw how thin Letitia (white goats name) was I thought maybe I had made a mistake in trying to dry Peaches off~ that maybe the milkers were supposed to be that skinny. Am I wrong and going to have to dry Letitia off too? I paid a LOT more for Letitia as a homestead milker ($150). The lady I purchased from told me she was milking 1/2 gallon a day on once a day milkings. I milked for the first time this morning~ got something less than a quart of milk (VERY SLOWLY too~ either she has tiny orifices or I'm just not as good at milking her as I am at Peaches). I'm hoping the lower than expected milk this morning is stress from the move yesterday~ Here is another pic of Peaches and Letitia from last night:



And do y'all think I need to do anything more for Peaches with that different color milk from her two teats~ or this is part of the drying off process? She does seem to be gaining some wieght~ she was VERY skinny when we got her about 2 months ago.

[pookshollow]

Ew. Don't like the look of the milk on the right at all! Can you get it tested for mastitis? Don't feed it to anything. I'd be inclined to get a "dry cow" infusion and dose both sides of her udder. I think in the States, it's called "Today" and "Tomorrow" - one is for dry cows, one for milking, although I have no idea which is which, since we don't have it up here. If you have a feed mill with knowledgeable staff, they should be able to help you.

Letitia is definitely thin and not producing all that much milk IMO. I would suggest you deworm her, if you haven't already, and then deworm her again in 10 days, then again 10 days after that. I'm not sure where you are located, so I don't want to recommend a dewormer. I use Ivermectin and Moxidectin.

Don't dry her off - keep milking her, but give her some good feed - the best hay you can find, and/or alfalfa pellets to start. Don't overload her with grain as I doubt she's used to it - start her off with small amounts. I feed a 14% goat dairy ration, as that's what I can get. BOSS wouldn't hurt her (Black Oil Sunflower Seeds) - a handful at each feeding.

Hope that helps!

[pookshollow]

Forgot to ask! What minerals do you have for them? I'll bet they could both benefit from some copper.

[Cheryl aka JM]

I've got some loose goat mineral (copper is 1350ppm) out for them. Peaches has had it for the last couple months she's been here~ don't know if she had any before that. When I showed it to Letitia last night she went ahead and had some~ again I don't know if she's had it offered before.

Letitia is wormy~ her eyes are very pale. The lady I bought her from wormed her day before yesterday~ I plan to follow up with cydectin in a week or so~ and then with ivermectin to get a broad enough spectrum to get everything I hope.

Thanks for the advice. I know I've seen those "Today" and "Tomarrow" at the feed store~ I'll pick one up for Peaches. She is a very sweet girl and while I'd like to have her milking I'd rather get her built up good and healthy for next season.

[jil101ca]

My Nubian looked like your does when I bought her march of this year, very very thin. Her baby had just died a week before so I started to milk her. We only got a 1/2 cup per milking but kept it up, good learning experience for me and her. I gave her all the hay she wanted and slowly introduced her to grain. 16% dairy texturised. I started her off with a handfull and slowly got her up to 3 lbs divided into 2 feedings plus minerals. Now she is milking 4 quarts per day and looks so good that I'm thinking of cutting her grain back a bit. It took 5 months to get her looking good (as well as the rest I bought)