5 month buck - urinary calculi ??

3crow · #1 07/07/09, 07:55 PM

I have a 5 month buck down with what I believe is urinary calculi. This is the first time I am dealing with this. Between the breeder and myself we treated him with a 4-way pak and I put him on a 3 day course of antibotics. He was off the antibotics 2 days and he seemed better, but today I went out and he didn't look so great. I took him off all concentrates and started him on the antibotics again (vet recommendation) and using the 4-way pak. I checked his sheath and he has some heat and is very tender. He is urinating still and it is blood tingled. I talked to the vet (my 2 day wonder) and he told me that the operation is very expensive, he said that the odds aren't good anyway and in basically told me that he wasn't interested in doing it. He also told me that he is not a goat expert several times during the conversation and told me that he can't help with any of my questions. Anyways, I am trying to pull this guy through but need more info. Has anyone used the ammonium chloride? The food I was giving was a 2 to 1 ratio, where did I go wrong? Any thoughts and ideas would greatly appreciated.

DairyGoatSlave · #2 07/07/09, 07:58 PM

from what I heard of there isant much except the opperation, which is very expensive it will most likely come back. is he eating? drinking?

Bricheze · #3 07/07/09, 08:01 PM

The only thing you can do (besides the operation) is give him Ammonium Chloride and hope it breaks up the blockage. I would not have him get the operation if your vet doesn't know much about goats...

3crow · #4 07/07/09, 08:08 PM

Yes, he is eating hay (grass) and I have been letting him out in the pasture so he can eat the grass. He is also drinking. Any ideas what the dosage may be for the ammonium chloride?

DairyGoatSlave · #5 07/07/09, 08:10 PM

at least hes eating, my friend had a weather that it happend to, poor guy couldnt eat or drink. sorry i dont know the dosage

Bricheze · #6 07/07/09, 08:12 PM

I remember seeing a website that had a dosage... let me see if I can find it

Bricheze · #7 07/07/09, 08:13 PM

Oh, found it, it was at Fiasco: http://fiascofarm.com/goats/stones.htm also has prevention for furture use. Sense he is urinating some, don't lose all hope, I think that's a good sign

Minelson · #8 07/07/09, 08:18 PM

Check out this thread...
Sick Goat

3crow · #9 07/07/09, 08:47 PM

Thanks for the info.

fishhead · #10 07/08/09, 08:20 AM

Someone posted here that they had very good results with DL Methionine. You may want to do a search of this site for that thread in case you can't find any AC right now.

fishhead · #11 07/08/09, 08:26 AM

Here it is.

urinary calculi

deetu · #12 07/08/09, 09:58 AM

in the past, i have successfully drenched my bucklings AND I also used a spray bottle with vinegar and water to spray up into the sheath, massaging it loose.

AC is 1 teaspoon per 150 pounds per Cornell University
I, unfortunately overdosed my last guy because I could not find the dose.

this is from minelson:
"Deetu, I make dosage balls for Frankie to get the AC in him. Mix 1/2 cup of bread crumbs (or oatmeal) with 1/4 cup Slippery Elm bark. Add your AC daily dosage X 12. Mix. Add 1/4 molasses (or honey) and a splash of water. Mix to make a dough like log form. Cut into even 12 pieces and roll each piece into a ball. Roll balls in more Slippery elm bark to keep them from sticking. Put in plastic bag in the fridge. There...12 day supply"

Backfourty,MI. · #13 07/08/09, 01:25 PM

deetu, you should not blame yourself, remember I told you to give him the higher dose because when my buck first got the UC I started him out with 2 tsp. for the 1st couple day's I believe.

For my maintanence doe I give 1 & 1/2 tsp per day everyday. That is what Hoegger's directions are that come with the AC & also I believe it was Vicki once that said 1 tsp per day was not enough but don't quote me on that for sure.

I do think at least in our experience that once they have then they will re-occur & most likely you will have to keep a close eye on him always & will need the AC everyday & no grain. Grain is not always the only culprit but it won't help him either. Stop any grain if you question UC at all.

There is a surgical procedure that is done by your vet where they cut the pizzle off the end of the penis(it's the curly thing at the end) with a very sharp scissors & then the whole will be a little bigger.
The other surgery they are talking about is re-routing their urinary tract & it is very exspensive & some here said there bucks didn't live long afterwards. I personally would not recommend that surgery but the pizzle cut off is no problem & my buck can still breed too.

Starsmom · #14 07/08/09, 03:58 PM

I had a goat that developed UC and after various treatments, it was determined he had to be put down or the surgery. This was my son's pet so he elected to have the surgery. It is, IMHO, a very demeaning surgery for a buck. They go in and reroute his penis so that it comes out under his anus. It is just hanging out there with no protection. Don't ever stand behind them when they have to urinate! Also, it gets raw and they start rubbing on everything, infections can happen...just not a good idea. If ever presented with the choice, I'd elect to put down.

Once they have it, they are going to be susceptible, so you need to have the AC on hand and give it to them on a regular basis. If he is urinating, I think the AC will work for you. It almost sounds like he may have a kidney or urinary tract infection instead of blockage or possible both.

Keep us posted.

Pony · #15 07/08/09, 04:30 PM

The methionine used to be standard treatment for cats (back in the olden days).

I don't know much about this in goats, but I'm really pulling for you.

3crow · #16 07/09/09, 12:43 AM

Well, we got the AC ordered and waiting the arrival via shipping. I ran all over the local towns in a nearby radius looking for it with no success. He is still hanging in there but the 'flow' is a trickle now and he is in pain. I am going to try the vinegar and water in the sheath that sounds like it may be a good thing. I tried to get him to drop but he won't or can't...not sure which. He is on antibotics twice a day, in case there is an infection. We are drenching with the 4-way and giving some aspirin for pain. He is still picking at the hay, nibbling on grass and drinking when he is out in the pasture.

Bricheze · #17 07/09/09, 02:17 AM

Glad to here he is still hanging in there, hope you get the AC in time and he can make it. I am pulling for you guys, please keep us updated!

Pony · #18 07/09/09, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3crow

Well, we got the AC ordered and waiting the arrival via shipping. I ran all over the local towns in a nearby radius looking for it with no success. He is still hanging in there but the 'flow' is a trickle now and he is in pain. I am going to try the vinegar and water in the sheath that sounds like it may be a good thing. I tried to get him to drop but he won't or can't...not sure which. He is on antibiotics twice a day, in case there is an infection. We are drenching with the 4-way and giving some aspirin for pain. He is still picking at the hay, nibbling on grass and drinking when he is out in the pasture.

I'm wondering if Banamine would give him a little more pain relief than aspirin... Do you have any on hand, or would your local large animal guy sell you a bottle? It really helped our Bow when he broke his leg. Some folks give it IM, but we found that IV works nearly immediately.

And in the meantime, does cranberry work as well in goats as it does in humans? My daughter used to get horrendous bladder infections, but if she takes cranberry supplements regularly, she doesn't get sick.

fishhead · #19 07/09/09, 06:37 AM

Unless the AC is due to arrive this morning I would not wait. I would be calling vets to find it or methionine. You might be able to get the latter at a pharmacy with prescription from your vet. Any vet can get you acepromozine. That will help relax him and may loosen the muscles enough to allow some urine to escape.

Minelson · #20 07/09/09, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

Unless the AC is due to arrive this morning I would not wait. I would be calling vets to find it or methionine. You might be able to get the latter at a pharmacy with prescription from your vet. Any vet can get you acepromozine. That will help relax him and may loosen the muscles enough to allow some urine to escape.

I agree. You need the AC asap...call pharmacies and vets. Also, where are you located...maybe someone on here is close.