getting a goat - purebred or not?

[mad_misky]

I'm getting a milking goat soon. I have the opportunity to buy a toggenburg/alpine cross, or I can get a purebred alpine. Is there an advantage to purebred, or does it matter? I'm just looking for a family dairy, here, no showing or anything like that.

[chamoisee]

It depends on whether you want to sell the kids or not. When the kids are purebred and registered, they can sell for enough money to pay for the upkeep of the doe, or at least a good part of her upkeep.

[mad_misky]

Well, I don't want to keep every single doe that's born on my property... I hadn't really thought of trying to support the doe's upkeep. What's the different in price? Oh yeah, I should know this anyway, in case these people ask me too much.

This particular doe is 3/4 toggenburg 1/4 alpine... what's that worth?

[Idahoe]

yup, you have to think ahead to all those kids you'll get as a by product of your family dairy

It was hard for me to conceptualize all that I really needed to, before I got goats. Not ever having been a homesteader (and still am not, just enjoy goats et al).

If you can afford it, start off with two (they need other goats for company) and see how it goes. You'll get a really good idea with numbers this way. Go through a season of kidding and see how it goes.

Either registered or unregistered. I think it's safest to go registered, money wise, it's a lot to shell out at the beginning. Just look to keep cost of upkeep and what the goat gives back (kids and milk) as even as possible. That's what I work for, but again I am no farmer, I just try to be frugal and smart.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Even if you get registered, look at conformation and udder qualities. I have one registered Alpine with the udder from Hades.

[Rockytopsis]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Even if you get registered, look at conformation and udder qualities. I have one registered Alpine with the udder from Hades.

I think I have her sister. LOL Her one saving grace is that she is a good mom.

[pookshollow]

This particular doe is 3/4 toggenburg 1/4 alpine... what's that worth?

Kind of hard to say - a lot depends on your area, but also, how old is she? is she in milk now? is she used to being handmilked? does her milk taste good? I'd say anywhere from $150 to $300.

If she is milking now, you should ask to milk her yourself, just to get a feel for how well-behaved she is, and taste her milk, to make sure you like it. I've heard that Toggenburgs can have strong-tasting milk.

Also, since she's 3/4 Togg, you could always breed her to a purebred Togg buck and register the kids. Up in Canada, they're called "recorded grade", not sure what the equivalent is in the States. They'd only be considered 50% Toggenburg though.

[billooo2]

My preference is to stick with registered animals.......
Get more than one!!! Goats do not do well by themselves.
If you are buying a milker, milk the animal.....and taste the milk BEFORE you buy.
Try to inform yourself before you go to buy. Even if you are not planning to show..........learn about conformation......and what a good udder looks like. I remember years ago when I first started looking at goats..........someone was telling me what to look for in a good "milker. AS I learned more, that person was trying to tell me that a pendulous udder, no foreudder, and small area of attachment indicated that the doe was a really heavy milker.

[Idahoe]

Originally Posted by Rockytopsis

I think I have her sister. LOL Her one saving grace is that she is a good mom.

And I have her Nubian equivalent. She was a "show goat" and once she freshened her udder went straight downward, no rear suspension at all!

I'm still waiting around for her saving grace, other than she . . . well, I'm still waiting I'm not shaped perfectly either

[mad_misky]

It seems that toggenburgs are plentiful in the area. I can get does that are due to kid any day now, or a doe with a kid already on her, or a milking doe whose baby was born back in March. I was hoping to get a mom and baby or a pregnant doe, so that she's not alone. What's best?

It seems I can get a purebred (but not registered) toggenburg for the same price as this 3/4 toggenburg. Well, this particular doe comes with her buckling kid, or I can get a pure toggenburg for the same price.

I'll study some pictures. So I'm looking for no saggy udders... what else?

[chamoisee]

Originally Posted by mad_misky

I'll study some pictures. So I'm looking for no saggy udders... what else?

Disease free! Not just claims of being CL and CAE free, PROOF.

[billooo2]

Originally Posted by mad_misky

It seems that toggenburgs are plentiful in the area. I can get does that are due to kid any day now, or a doe with a kid already on her, or a milking doe whose baby was born back in March. I was hoping to get a mom and baby or a pregnant doe, so that she's not alone. What's best?

It seems I can get a purebred (but not registered) toggenburg for the same price as this 3/4 toggenburg. Well, this particular doe comes with her buckling kid, or I can get a pure toggenburg for the same price.

I'll study some pictures. So I'm looking for no saggy udders... what else?

everyone probably has their favorite things to look for first........
*steep rumps (some people say that they are more prone to delivery problems)
*pasterns.....if they are looking weak in a young animal, then they are probably headed for problems)
*feel the udder BEFORE and AFTER milking. The udder should shrink in size and there should not be any hard lumps. (I can't explain what a "good texture" should feel like)
*look for "lumps" that may be abcesses
*is there any discharge from their nose.
*If you want to look like you now what you are doing........check the color of the inside of the eyelids. (All white indicates a high worm load)
*watch the doe walk........does she have any limps, or apparent "tenderness" in her feet or joints?
*what does her coat look like......smooth and shiny, or dull with "frizzy" hair (but also allow for the time of year, and some goats can look "frizzy" when they are shedding their winter coat)
*what is her personality like? (But I have some does that will not be "warm and friendly" with strangers. But once they get to know you......they want to practically be in your lap)
I am sure that others have their favorite things to look for.....

[chamoisee]

Legs: the rear legs should be angled at the hock. If they are almost straight, the doe will be experiencing pain soon if she isn't already. These legs are called "posty", and posty legs shorten the doe's lifespan.

Body capacity: a good goat will looks like she's pregnant most of the time; not fat, but with well sprung ribs and a deep belly and heart girth. A shallow bellied, slab sided doe is not usually a good milker. However, all does develop this depth and width of barrel as they age; a young doe will not be as big or as deep as an older doe.

Personality: Make sure you like her and that she likes you. This is so important. You be be practically married to this goat, having to milk her twice a day for about 300 days per year. Make sure you get along.

Horns: if you have a choice, get a doe without horns.

Dairy character: her neck should be long and lean, and she shouldn't be carrying much fat or any over her ribs. Think racehorse as opposed to draft horse, you want the race horse type- lean and angular, or for another example, a greyhound rather than a bulldog or labrador.

If you are still not sure, then take some time to look over the winners of the National shows, in all breeds, for the past few years. And if you have any other questions, we will be here!

[mad_misky]

Here are pictures of the one that I was sent. Or I could go choose from a bunch of toggenburg doelings that are due to kid out in the next couple weeks.

[chamoisee]

The black doe in the background looks like she could have come my my herd. As for the Togg....is she just shedding? I think so.... she isn't perfect but she looks like a good starter goat, a lot nicer than what I started with. It would be nice if they gave an udder pic.

[mad_misky]

Okay, here are my options:

-The above pictured 3/4 togg 1/4 alpine doe with disbudded buckling kid, which is the closest to where I live (about 1/2 hour), for $350.
-A toggenburg from a further away farm (1 hour) that is due to kid in the next couple of weeks. (I would have a few to choose from) for $350
-A further away alpine doe (1 1/5 hour) with a buckling for $250-500 (there are a few to choose from, they're getting back to me on what they have available). The only kids they've left on the does are bucklings, and I want a mom and baby.

I really like the first people's philosophy - they have a closed herd and grow all their own natural food. Plus, she asked me lots of questions about my facilities and made sure I wasn't going to keep the doe alone, and I like people to act like they care where their animals go. They also leave the kids on the does, separating them at night and milking in the morning, which is exactly what I want to do, so it would be a smooth transition. They gave me the option of having her delivered for an extra $20, so that's handy.

But the other two seem good options, too. Obviously the last one has the potential to be the least expensive, but I might not want the $250 doe. With the does that haven't kidded yet, there's the potential to get more "bang for my buck" if she has twins or triplets, but then again, I'm not sure if I want to oversee a birth in my first week or two of goat ownership.

So what would you guys do?

[mad_misky]

Oh yeah, I don't know if she's shedding. I'll ask. I guess I should also ask who that buckling's daddy is. He doesn't look toggenburg.

[billooo2]

I don't know where you live, but around here, $350 is a little on the steep side. My preference is to buy milkers. To me, to buy an animal that has not freshened is sort of like buying a "pig in a poke." The udder has a lot ot do with the reason that you are buying the goat. I have had first fresheners that have very small udders with very little milk......and I shipped them to the auction, I have had other first fresheners that I was very pleased with. A couple years ago I bought 2 bred dry yearlings. One has a very nice udder. The other one has .......a not very nice udder. But I bought them more for "brood" does, as opposed for "show." And, so far, her daughter's udder is much nicer than her mother's udder.
Occasionally I do buy a kid or dry yearling........but it is usually with the thought in mind that this purchase is for "the genetics." That way I do not get my hopes too high if the udder does not come in llike I had hoped for.
Is there any chance of waiting until those does have freshened????....and then make a decision????

[mad_misky]

The first and third options have freshened. It's only the second option where the does haven't freshened.

I've contacted every goat breeder in the area, and they all have similar prices. This is Canadian dollars, in a wealthy province, I'm sure that makes a difference.

My other option is to go to an auction and see what's there, I guess.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by mad_misky

My other option is to go to an auction and see what's there, I guess.

Not really an option if you want healthy, productive does. Especially for a new goat person.

I probably wouldn't reccomend a doe that is soon to kid, especially if you are new to livestock in general. Give yourself time to get to know each other before you have the double responsibility of twice a day milking *and* kid care.
Its really hard to say without seeing the goats themselves. Have you asked anyone about CAE status on these does?? For those prices, I would want them tested CAE negative and of course CL is a concern.
If they are milkable, friendly, *healthy*(tested CAE negative, with NO CL in the herd), then those prices are not that high. Are these all grade does or do they have papers?