Thiamine and polio

[HilltopDaisy]

I noticed a 3 month old wether acting a bit off last night. The only real symptom I could see was lack of coordination when walking, and bit of stiffness in the neck area. It was too late to reach my vet so I came here and did some research. I came up with polio, due to his age, the fact that mom is weaning him, and he ate a small amount of chicken pellets the morning before (he'd never had anything but milk, hay and pasture). I gave him B-Complex because that's all I had, and Power Punch for goats, and I got thiamine from my vet this morning. He's had one shot so far, 1 ml (500mg/ml). She's given me 5 syringes, total.

How long should it take to see an improvement? He's no worse than he was last night. He's eating, chewing his cud, ambulating although very unsteady, temp is 102.8. I just watched him pee and there is no sign of loose stool (he's white so I think I'd be able to tell).

It's not likely that he could have been injured because he shares a nice pasture with his mom and a bottle doeling, so there's no rough play. Also not likely that it's meningeal worm because he's in a pasture within a pasture, and I have 2 LGD's so I never see deer near here.

The only thing that looks odd to me is a small bump? under his chin, a soft spot the size of a cherry, doesn't appear to be a bite or injury. Might have nothing to do with anything?

I've spent hours reading old threads, but please feel free to point out anything I could be missing. Thanks.

[HilltopDaisy]

He just had a bowel movement. Normal formed berries encased in a thick, whitish substance. I just gave him the second IM of thiamine. He does not seem any better.

[fishhead]

I think the initial turnaround is pretty quick. Isn't the shot schedule every 6 hours?

[HilltopDaisy]

I had really hoped that I'd found a decent goat vet .....

I was there at 7:30 this morning, and she was not (office opened at 7:00).

I called ahead, and said I needed thiamine, and the woman who answered the phone acted like she'd never heard of it.

Vet had it on the truck, and when she arrived, gave me 5 syringes of 1.5 ml.

He's not getting better. I think the Vet looked it up online, just like we do. At first, she said she had no thiamine, and was doing the conversion of B-Complex!! I told her I was already doing that, and she must have thiamine on the truck, no? I explained that I could only get thiamine from a vet......

Sure enough, she had half a bottle on the truck. I'm sick. I've never lost a goat. I'm so scared that he's going to die.

I forgot to say, she only gave me 5 doses, to be given twice a day.

[techmik1999]

I used to have a 3 yr old Female goat. One day noticed that she was acting funny. Kind of in a daze, walking weird, tongue partially hanging out, and seemed like she was partially paralyzed . I was out of work so vet was not an option but did research on internet. determined from syptoms either polio or listerosis. One called for Pennycillin and another thiamine. Well thiamine can only be gotten from a vet. But well thiamine is nothing but Vitamin B12. I quartined her and gave her both of them. For 5 days 1000mg of B12 and 4X/day 5 cc of pennycillin. Then a week of 200 mg of B12 aand 1x/day 5 cc of pennycillin. Had her for another year and half not problem bakc to normal and actually she gave twins.

[HilltopDaisy]

Originally Posted by techmik1999

I used to have a 3 yr old Female goat. One day noticed that she was acting funny. Kind of in a daze, walking weird, tongue partially hanging out, and seemed like she was partially paralyzed . I was out of work so vet was not an option but did research on internet. determined from syptoms either polio or listerosis. One called for Pennycillin and another thiamine. Well thiamine can only be gotten from a vet. But well thiamine is nothing but Vitamin B12. I quartined her and gave her both of them. For 5 days 1000mg of B12 and 4X/day 5 cc of pennycillin. Then a week of 200 mg of B12 aand 1x/day 5 cc of pennycillin. Had her for another year and half not problem bakc to normal and actually she gave twins.

Thiamine is B1. There is no sign of paralysis.

[deafgoatlady]

It might not be polio then. You can give foritifed vit b complex as 6 cc EVERY 6 hours. It will not overdose them. I already worked with a lady who called me as ER for her goat have some problems. Her goat is fine now and back to normal. It TOOK two weeks for her to be healed. It was LONG battle but I helped that lady a lot almost like 24 hours a day. She would call me middle of the nite. Anyways.. What I did and told the lady do this..


Use thiamine or vit b complex for every 6 hours.

Use naxcel for every 6 hours.

Use some kind of steroid shots once a day.

The goat came back to normal. It was a lot of shots but it works! The vet was surprised that I was right about this. Oh also

We been giving the doe probios once a day and been giving yogurt mixture three times a day and also I use a gallon jug (to keep track of how much giving fluids a day) that is being mixed with eletrolyes. Used a gallon a day and yogurt mixture until she start eating hay.

[Laverne]

Read this article at Saanendoah http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html Scroll down to the article about Polioencephalitis , copper deficiency as a probable cause of polio. I had a bout with this in my kids and symptoms were similar to thiamine deficiency. I hope you get to the root of the problem. The steroids for brain swelling sound good too from above post.

[HilltopDaisy]

He doesn't seem to be responding to the thiamine. His neck is twisted back now. Procaine Pen every 6 hours. Listeriosis?

[fishhead]

It could be listeriosis. The twisted neck sounds like it. I would try a course of Pen G.

I had one with listeriosis. I gave it Pen G daily and had it turned around but stopped after just 3 days due to bad advice and lost him. Now I know to give a minimum of 5 days and at least 24 hours after symptoms disappear.

Mine started with a 106 temp.

Good luck with him.

[Minelson]

I don't have any advice...just hoping your wether gets better for you...

[deafgoatlady]

Yes give him every 6 hours


read upbove what I have been doing for my friend's goat and we been doing that for 2 weeks. But after 7 days and we gradually reduce SLOWLY then stop altogether. And it turn out great!

[HilltopDaisy]

Just got back from TSC. I was wrong about the neck being twisted back, it was just the way he was lying. He is worse today that he was yesterday. He cannot stand without assistance. He is eating, peeing and pooping.

I gave him 3/4 ml of Ivomec injection (he's about 35 pounds), 3 ml Propen, a dose of probios and a dose of Nutri-drench.

Do I need to prop him up? He's lying on his side, munching hay.

[Brandon]

I've dealt with this before. In my opinion, you're wasting your time with worming. It's most likely polio. TSC sometimes has fortified b complex(it has more thiamine than the original), but you have to have someone at the store that knows about goats. I'm not a vet, but I can tell you that I up the dosage when the situation calls for it. The neck twisting probably has to do with the goat wanting to get up. Once they get this way, it's not very easy to bring them back. If she gets to the point that she doesn't want to eat and can't get up, best thing to do is put them down so they don't suffer.

[Brandon]

And yes he should be propped up. If he can only be on his side, he should be flipped from side to side whenever you check on him. What are you feeding btw? Deccox is a thiamine inhibitor, so I never feed anything with it in it.

[HilltopDaisy]

Originally Posted by Brandon

I've dealt with this before. In my opinion, you're wasting your time with worming. It's most likely polio. TSC sometimes has fortified b complex(it has more thiamine than the original), but you have to have someone at the store that knows about goats. I'm not a vet, but I can tell you that I up the dosage when the situation calls for it. The neck twisting probably has to do with the goat wanting to get up. Once they get this way, it's not very easy to bring them back. If she gets to the point that she doesn't want to eat and can't get up, best thing to do is put them down so they don't suffer.

I've already tried the thiamine, from the vet, and the goat showed no improvement.

[Brandon]

Just because there is no improvement, it doesn't mean you stop giving it. If the goat has polio, you need to continue giving it until the goat gets better or has to be put down.

Below is what I pulled off a site of some friends that have successfully treated polio.

Polioencephalitis (Goat Polio).
This is treated with mega doses of Thiamin. Thiamin is a vet-prescribed drug. Fortified Vitamin B Complex contains a lot of Thiamin. If goat polio is the suspected illness, we give a loaded dose of 10 cc then 5cc twice a day.

[HilltopDaisy]

The kid still nurses some, and he eats pasture grasses/browse, and hay. No feed, other than the small amount he stole from the chicken feeder two (or three) days ago. I thought it was polio at first, but when he didn't respond to the thiamine, I started treating for other possibilities ~ Ivomec for Meningeal worms, and Propen for listeriosis.

[HilltopDaisy]

OK, so I haven't skipped a dose of thiamine yet, I'll give it now.

[Brandon]

Well, medicines in themselves are usually toxic so giving them can do more harm than good if they aren't the right ones. The chicken feed has nothing to do with it. Worms can be one of the problems but giving a wormer now, which suppresses the immune system is not the best option. Check the eyelids. They should be medium pink. If they are white or light pink, it is because of worms and the goat is anemic (sp?). To treat this, the goat needs iron which can either be an iron injection, molasses, dark corn syrup, Red cell (a horse product), or nutri drench. Nutri drench also contains other things that will help with energy. Probiotics are good to give to keep his stomach in good shape, but if you start giving an antibiotic, you need to stop the probiotics until the antibiotics have run their course.