Don't Get Mad

[cbrconst]

I'm raising Boer crosses as a hobby/pleasure and I sell the bucks/wethers. I had two set of triplets this season and all six are considerably smaller that the twins and singles. Strictly from the standpoint of having a larger animal to sell, i'd like to hear thoughts on removing/euthanasia of one triplet at birth. I know this is going to get me in trouble, but it's also a business.

Thanks

[christie]

I have read about people who during hard times or for whatever reason don't want to raise babies.. that at birth, as they come out put them in a bucket of water. They never even take their 1st breath! I thought that this is what I would do if I couldn't raise them for some reason.
Not mad... Like you said some people raise animals for a business... you got to do what you got to do. Some though goats are just pets, and the more the merrier to them.
Good luck

[thaiblue12]

Why don't you advertise on craigs or your feed store and give the kid away free as a bottle baby? I am not mad it seems like a more humane thing to do as the kid/kids sre not sick and has no health issues so there really is no reason to me to terminate it.
My does have successfully raised quads and triplets and none were stunned it just took them a it longer to get to the same size as singles and twins.

[GoldenSeal]

I'd sell it or give it away as a bottle baby.

[ShyAnne]

I agree, because you know *about* when you will be having kids put a sign up a week or two before the kids are born advertising a list for bottle babies. If you can get a list started you will never have to worry about it.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I *really* don't want any more bucklings this year, and I have three does due in the next couple of weeks.

Giving them away as bottle bucklings to folks that don't know squat about goats isn't humane, as they will most likely succumb to disease or overfeeding or milk replacer.

Heck, I am two years (or is it three) into this and lost a bottle baby.

[chamoisee]

I sell off the buck kid that I don't want. Often if I don't need a replacement buck or can't sell the buck for much money, I will sell off the biggest buckling as a bottle baby. And frankly, I pretty much sell such a kid for whatever I can get, as soon as I can, just to get him out of my hair so that the doeling(s) can grow out well.

[Rockytopsis]

We had one set of triplets this year and yes they were smaller at birth but the mom soon got up to par on milk production and now the 3 fit right in with all the other 20 kids.

[chamoisee]

Or if this is just a hobby, and if you have the time, you could bring in a clean dairy doe and put her on a milking stand and graft two of the kids onto her. The size at birth often has little correlation with the size at maturity. Just because they are small as newborns doesn't mean they're destined to be runts.

[RiverPines]

They make a tasty dog treat. Seriously if your going to kill them, use them for dog food. Every part is edible for the dog and good for Fido too.
If you dont have carnivore dogs, freeze them and give them away or sell them for dog food.

Our carnivores fur friends like to eat good animals too!

[AnnaS]

We dam raise bucklings here, and have the same issue with our first group of dam-raised triplets. The dam has a LOT of milk- tested a hair over 18 lbs last month- but like most does, she will let them nurse just so long and then walk off. They were all good sized at birth, just not gaining like their twin and single herdmates.

Another option would be to graft them to a doe who has a single. Some does will take another kid if they have recently given birth. I have a doe who will steal an extra kid if she can catch a doe kidding or call a young kid away from its mother. You might have a doe who will like an extra kid.

I agree that selling a bottle kid to a random person may not be humane. If you can contact the 4-H/Extension folks in your area, you can probably find a 4_Her or FFA kid with the right skills. Market wethers are a nice project and they really have to be bottled to be easy for a kid to show. Could be a nice promo for your stock if the wether makes some good wins.

[Backfourty,MI.]

No one should get mad, this is an open forum & you'll get all kinds of answers & opinions when you ask questions but in the end it is still your buisness.
I personally would never sell a bottle kid to anyone with out ton's of goat experience & then still probly NOT! Just like Alice said your asking for trouble & most likely they aren't going to make it once they are in an inexperienced persons hands.
I have doe's that raise triplets & they even start not much smaller than alot of singles & twins. Mine always seem right up to par with the rest of them. Let the dam raise them up & have them butchered for summer sausage, etc. that way it's not a waste of what would probly be a normal size healthy animal if you give it a little time.

[deetu]

I had a doe have triplets, two bucks and a doeling. I took the doeling to auction and wouldn't let them put her in the ring or touch her. I told the ring master that if I didn't get $45 for her, I was taking her home. All the old farmers there were laughing at me and one even put a bid of 25 cents on her. Well, they went laughing when the bid not only reached $45 but past it. I sold a day old doeling for $65.

The next week was the same situation. The farmers laughed at me because I thought I would get the same amount. Well, I didn't. I got $68 for that one. The brother I only got $20 for. (FF that didn't recognize kids and it was cold out) And that was with the help of a friend that wasn't interested but wanted to help me out.

It all depends on who wants a kid. One guy was upset because I got more for these day olds then he got on a 6 month old buckling.

If you bring in the doelings, you get more money for them. Then you can leave the bucklings on to get bigger.

BUT, I knew the woman who bought them and told her to feed whole cows milk with a little probiotics and a drop of corn syrup. She did't listen and fed milk replacer and one died of bloat.

[silvergirl]

I've noticed a number of posts where people suggest feeding whole cow's milk to newborn goats... I bottle fed my newborns on goat's milk that I bought from a goat farm nearby, when I didn't have enough of my own goat's milk for the little ones... I would never suggest cow's milk as an alternative for newborn kids, if I passed on a bottle baby to someone. I would use it only as a last resort...

[Backfourty,MI.]

The reason they suggest whole cows milk is as an alternative. All goat people want to feed the babies goats milk but when they are suggesting whole cows milk it's usually because it's a new person to goats & they don't have any goats milk & whole cow's milk is the next best thing. Never use Replacer which alot of newbi's are told to use & then the kids end up in trouble or worse.

[kreddish]

Understand.... having goats is also a business. LOike indicated before, try to find someone who wants a bottle baby

[susieM]

Even new ones are good roasted with garlic.

[ozark_jewels]

First off, there is nothing wrong with killing a newborn goat as long as it is done humanely. They are livestock. You must make the best use of the resources available to you. If this means culling a milk drinker, then that is fine. I always look for other alternatives first.

I do, and always will, prefer to sell bottle babies than to kill them as newborns. Not always possible, but usually it is if I advertise *before* the kids are born. I send bottle babies off to experienced people without a second thought. Inexperienced people get a lot of advice, a nipple the kid is accustomed to, a paper on raising and keeping goats, my phone number("call me anytime")and a healthy kid broke to the bottle. There are rarely any problems.
I always advise them to feed healthy, fresh cows or goats milk as first choice. If that is not possible, then store cows milk. I *have* refused to sell bottle kids to newbies who insisted they would be feeding replacer only.
My own bottle kids are always raised on raw Jersey milk and do exceptionally well. So I know what I speak of.
The idea of not selling bottle kids to new buyers because they might die......well, us experienced goat breeders still lose kids every now and then. It is by no means just a newbie thing. Just do *your* best to prepare the buyer for all contingencies.

Now, if you must kill a newborn, I would *never* suggest drowning in a bucket. If you have ever had the "wonderful" experience of choking and gagging, inhaling water while swimming.....you know that drowning is NOT a quick or easy way to die.
If I had a choice between drowning, a bullet in the brain, or a quick bash to the head, for MY death?? I'd take the bullet or bash anyday. In fact, they would be a pretty quick and painless way to go in comparison to most deaths. Also, kids are terribly small at that age and I'm sure it would be easy to slit the throat all the way, also a quick way to die.
A bucket with water may be the easiest way for the *owner*, but not for the kid. If you have ever attended any animal births and seen the newborn struggle for that first breath, snorting and coughing......then you *know* they will be aware as they drown.
When I have had to put down newborns, I used my .22 pistol. A quick shot through the back of the head, and they were gone. Once I had no pistol available and I cleaned the kids nose so it could breathe cleanly, found a very large rock, and crushed its skull with one hard blow. Gruesome yes, but instant death, unlike drowning. It was harder on me, but easier on the kid.
In my opinion, a bucket is an emotional cop-out.
Now that I have undoubtedly upset some folks(I'm sorry to be so vivid, but I feel *very* strongly about the supposed "ease" of drowning a newborn kid), I guess I am finished with what I wanted to say.
Also, those young kids make good eating or good dogfood. Just skin them, gut them, cut off head and feet, and freeze. If for dogfood, I freeze in portion sized bags. Don't waste good meat.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by silvergirl

I would use it only as a last resort...

Last resort would be replacer. My first resort is always healthy fresh raw cows milk from our cows.

[Rockytopsis]

Of the few times that we have had to dispose of a newborn or a very young kid, DH always uses a very sharp knife to the throat. Very quick. When he has to he now prefers to dispatch the older ones this way also, we did the bullet thing once and he said never again.