questions, questions, and more questions!

[6monkeys]

Let me start off by introducing myself. My name is Sheree, and although I live in suburbia, I kind of feel as if I am a misplaced farmer (maybe not though, as I get tired a lot). I live on 1 1/2 acres and will have 35 chickens in the summer, have a garden, fruit trees and berries, 3 dogs and 6 kids (hence the reason I am tired a lot!). I really want some milk goats, enough to provide us with milk, my brother, my cousins family, and a friend. My questions are:

1. What kind of milk goats would provide the right amount of milk for us, considering I really only want 2 milk goats (possibly a third pygora or angora)?
2. What is a good price for a registered goat of that particular breed?
3. Does it really matter if the goat is registered, if the breeders do testing?
4. How much space should the goats have?
5. Can you buy goats from accross country, and have them shipped? (sorry if this is a really stupid question--I know they do this with dogs, but I highly doubt I would)
6. How hard is it to find AI for the does?
7. If you breed your doe to a goat that is not tested for CAE (I think that is the one), is that a big problem?
8. Is it worth it to just get a male goat and avoid the hassle?

Sorry for all the questions--I have been reading the posts as I can (there is a lot of really good info, and I am also reading some books).

Thanks,
Sheree

[madness]

Welcome to the forum! You're gonna get a lot of different answers to your questions here...so to start, here are mine!

1. What kind of milk goats would provide the right amount of milk for us, considering I really only want 2 milk goats (possibly a third pygora or angora)?

Depends on how much that number of people drink. I know a family of 4 that drinks 2 gallons a week and family of 4 that only drinks half a gallon. A good family milking goat of a full sized breed is going to give you a gallon a day. Big milkers will be 3 gallons, not so good ones will be 1/2 gallon. Some Nigerians produce nearly as much or more milk than some poorly bred Nubians.

2. What is a good price for a registered goat of that particular breed?

Depends on your area! Here, you can hardly find an Sanaan or Oberhasli so they are going to run you more. Nubians are coming out everyone's ears to they aren't as much. Show lines are going to cost more than registered lines that are just for milk. But I would expect to pay $100-$400 just to give you a ballpark.

3. Does it really matter if the goat is registered, if the breeders do testing?

Depends on what you want them for! Seeing a theme here? If you also want to show, then yes, get registered. If you also want to simply have generally higher quality goats and work towards helping the breed's quality in general, get registered. If you are only interested in your own milk and only want a fairly good milker, then it probably doesn't matter. And I don't think all registered goats have to be CAE or CL tested. A registered goat doesn't mean a good one - I've seen plenty of poorly bred registered goats and I've seen plenty of great quality grade does and even mutts. Gotta look at the individual and the line.

4. How much space should the goats have?

There is a minimum required for comfort, and then there is a minimum for keeping them fed, which will vary greatly with area. With your size land, you aren't going to be able to provide much forage. I would give them as much as you can possibly spare.

5. Can you buy goats from accross country, and have them shipped? (sorry if this is a really stupid question--I know they do this with dogs, but I highly doubt I would)

Yes you can. I've never done it, but I know folks that have done it before.

6. How hard is it to find AI for the does?

From what I've heard, it can be hard to find a technician. Unless you are willing to shell out the money for all the equipment, you are better off finding a tech. Ask around in your area - ask vets, post on craigslist, etc. You might have a specialist right down the street or there might no be one for hundreds of miles. Just gotta look!

7. If you breed your doe to a goat that is not tested for CAE (I think that is the one), is that a big problem?

Yes this can be a problem. There are no studies that show that CAE is sexually transmitted but it DOES pass from one goat to another when infected and non-infected animals intermix. I wouldn't take the chance.

8. Is it worth it to just get a male goat and avoid the hassle?

Some would say yes, some would say no. Some male goats can be royal pain in the rear. They stink, they are loud, destructive and need to be fed all year round. On the other hand, you don't have to transport your does, which stresses them out, you might not have AI capabilities, you can usually monitor the breeding more closely etc. It's just going to have to be your decision!

And now be prepared for the next set of answers!

[billooo2]

Originally Posted by 6monkeys

Let me start off by introducing myself. My name is Sheree, and although I live in suburbia, I kind of feel as if I am a misplaced farmer (maybe not though, as I get tired a lot). I live on 1 1/2 acres and will have 35 chickens in the summer, have a garden, fruit trees and berries, 3 dogs and 6 kids (hence the reason I am tired a lot!). I really want some milk goats, enough to provide us with milk, my brother, my cousins family, and a friend. My questions are:

1. What kind of milk goats would provide the right amount of milk for us, considering I really only want 2 milk goats (possibly a third pygora or angora)?
It depends on how much milk you use. There is also a lot of variation within breeds. You will probably want to buy a doe that is fresh, so that you can milk her yourself before you buy her......so you can see if she is as easy milker, and how much she produces.
2. What is a good price for a registered goat of that particular breed?
Around here, typically $200-350 for a nice goat that is fresh.
3. Does it really matter if the goat is registered, if the breeders do testing?
I am not sure what you mean by "testing." I don't personally know of any breeders that do DHIA testing, or test for CAE that do not register their goats.
4. How much space should the goats have?
I think that 6-7 goats/acre is a "rule of thumb."
5. Can you buy goats from accross country, and have them shipped? (sorry if this is a really stupid question--I know they do this with dogs, but I highly doubt I would)
It can be done. Ron Keener does this full time. I think that his Yahoo group is called something like, "Travel with Ron." If you were buying babies, they can ship them in dog crates via certain airlines. Another option that breeders use is if you know of someone who is going to the National Show, or the National Convention.......and if the person you want to buy from is attending...or someone from their area is going.......One person can bring the goat to the event, and the other personcan bring it back to your area. I have not had an animal shipped via an airlines. I have used Ron, and have had used the other arrangement ......National Convention in Colorado .....goats in Washington .......someone from Washington brought them to Colorado. Transferred them to someone from Ohio, who brought them back to Ohio. I picked them up at the person's house when they returned.
6. How hard is it to find AI for the does?
In this area I do not know of any technicians that either do goats or "stock' goat semen. Everyone that I know that does AI, does it themselves. The technique is not hard. The tricky part is catching the does at the right time in their heat cycle. The most expensive start-up cost is the semen tank. If you have a breeder near you that does AI, they may be wiling to "rent" you some space in ther semen tank. But that means that you will have to haul your doe to their place to do the AI. (you only have a few minutes to do the AI once the semen leaves the tank)
7. If you breed your doe to a goat that is not tested for CAE (I think that is the one), is that a big problem?
Some people say that it is. Some people say that it is not, as long as you keep the buck isolated, and the only contact is the actual breeding.
8. Is it worth it to just get a male goat and avoid the hassle?
Another option that I have done in the past is to lease a buck for the breeding season. Keep him long enough so that your does are not coming back into heat, and then take him back home.

Sorry for all the questions--I have been reading the posts as I can (there is a lot of really good info, and I am also reading some books).

Thanks,
Sheree

Good luck in your endeavor!!

[6monkeys]

Ok, another question: Can the goats share the yard with chickens?

In regards to price--I called a lady today, and she sells her purebred Nubians for $1000.00 ( I really need a jaw dropping emoticon here). However, she was willing to sell me a 50% for around 350.00. The 50% being Nubian and Boer.

[madness]

Yep, they can share with the chickens. We encourage our chickens to come to the goat barn. They peck around in the nanny berries and help keep the flies at bay.

Wow...$1000. I would keep looking. I'm sure you can find a purebred for far less than that. A Boer/Nubian wouldn't be the end of the world, but I would still suggest looking for another breeder!

[Painted Pony]

Originally Posted by 6monkeys

Let me start off by introducing myself. My name is Sheree, and although I live in suburbia, I kind of feel as if I am a misplaced farmer (maybe not though, as I get tired a lot). I live on 1 1/2 acres and will have 35 chickens in the summer, have a garden, fruit trees and berries, Make sure your trees, berries, and gardern can be protected from the gaots or you won't have one of them very long.3 dogs and 6 kids (hence the reason I am tired a lot!). I really want some milk goats, enough to provide us with milk, my brother, my cousins family, and a friend. My questions are:

1. What kind of milk goats would provide the right amount of milk for us, considering I really only want 2 milk goats (possibly a third pygora or angora)?
On average a decent Nubian can give about 1/2 a gallon as a FF and gallon after that. Alpine might be a gallon as a FF and 1-2 gallons after that. Figure out how much milk you want/need for drinking and cheese, then decide on the breeds that meet that level of milk.
2. What is a good price for a registered goat of that particular breed?
Price depends on quality. I have Nubians that are close to a grand because they are well bred and form CH milkers. I have others that are average bred and worth $200-300. I think most other breeds are about the same.
3. Does it really matter if the goat is registered, if the breeders do testing?
If you want to show it matters. Of course you'll pay less for unregsitered, but their kids will sell for less. I like haivng registered animals because I can research their pedigrees. Maybe start with a grade (unregistered) doe from someone who tests for health AND keeps milking records. If you decide you want to show you can always sell her and start over with different stock.
4. How much space should the goats have?
Depends on if you are drylotting them or not. No less that 200 square feet per goat is recommended.
5. Can you buy goats from accross country, and have them shipped? (sorry if this is a really stupid question--I know they do this with dogs, but I highly doubt I would)
Yes you can do this. I have had a goat shipped and I plan to do it again. It is not cheap but it's worth it sometimes. I think it's much better than being on a shipping truck for days or weeks but that is just my opinion.
6. How hard is it to find AI for the does?
Depends on your area. You can look up breeders in your area and ask if they would be willing to help you AI for a fee for a fee over the fall season, and let you store some semen in their tank. Biggest problem might be the ability to tell when the does are in standing heat w/o a buck around. You can always AI every 12 hours during the heat if you want to increase your odds or settling the doe.
7. If you breed your doe to a goat that is not tested for CAE (I think that is the one), is that a big problem?
It's a risk but not really recorded. I think the risk is less than 1% but that's off memory. No record of CAE found in frozen semen that I am aware of.
8. Is it worth it to just get a male goat and avoid the hassle?
With only 1.5 acres I think it would be more hassle than it would be worth. I'd consider buying a buckling in the spring/summer, raise him up and let him breed that fall, then sell or butcher him. You may also find that a local breeder you get to know will trust your does and let you use their buck.

Sorry for all the questions--I have been reading the posts as I can (there is a lot of really good info, and I am also reading some books).

Thanks,
Sheree

Better to ask lots of questions before making your choices. Helps make better choices and better goat ownership IMO. Good luck!
Numoor Farms - www.NumoorFarms.com

[xoxoGOATSxoxo]

1. What kind of milk goats would provide the right amount of milk for us, considering I really only want 2 milk goats (possibly a third pygora or angora)?

Well-bred ones! Get good genetics, and you'll usually get lots of milk. Look at the mothers and grandmothers and daughters of the goats you want to buy, or their records. Production is something that'll run in the family. The full sized dairy breeds naturally produce more, too (usually).

2. What is a good price for a registered goat of that particular breed?

Depends where youre at.

3. Does it really matter if the goat is registered, if the breeders do testing?

You can't find a registered goat around here for anything. But you'll find plenty of great producers. So I personally dont think it mattersmuch, but it does to some people. What kind of testing are you speaking of: CAE and that sort of thing, or milk test, or genetic, or what?

4. How much space should the goats have?

As much as possible, especially for kids. They love to run! When they get older they wont want to jump around as much, but will enjoy meandering walks around the pen. Plus, with more room, theres room for more goats!

5. Can you buy goats from accross country, and have them shipped? (sorry if this is a really stupid question--I know they do this with dogs, but I highly doubt I would)

dunno.

6. How hard is it to find AI for the does?

Again, depends where youre at.

7. If you breed your doe to a goat that is not tested for CAE (I think that is the one), is that a big problem?

Big enough. I wouldnt do it.

8. Is it worth it to just get a male goat and avoid the hassle?

Depends. (seems like everything with goats "depends", huh? ) I wouldnt really want one, but a girl I know bought a buck her first year into goats and doesnt regret it. Granted, he was a nigerian dwarf, and is easier to handle than a buck of a larger breed, but still. For me, its just easier to drive a few hours for a nice buck, and cheaper because I can use different bucks without buying a new one evey few years. However, theres a few times that I wished I had a buck. Once, on the way home from a breeding in December, I got lost in a snowstorm and ended up lost on the indian reservation! It would've been nice to have a buck then, because I never would have gotten lost. But its totally up to you, of course. I've never had large numbers of goats, but if I did, I'd probably buy a buck.

[AnnaS]

If you are anywhere near UC-Davis, they have a goat dairy herd of multiple breeds that is DHIA tested, CAE tested, and HIGH quality. I would start there, and spend a day with the students and vets.

[AnnaS]

Before you get any goats, get some chicken wire around those fruit trees! Goats LOVE tree bark and will happily destroy an orchard in hours. and welcome to goating!!

Originally Posted by 6monkeys

1. What kind of milk goats would provide the right amount of milk for us, considering I really only want 2 milk goats (possibly a third pygora or angora)?

An okay milk goat should average 5-8 lbs per day over their 10 month lactation. A quart of milk is around 2.2 lbs, so 2 to 4 quarts per day. Goats don't milk x lbs of milk every day- they increase production over the first 1-3 months, hold for a while, and then slowly decrease. Does with strong milk genetics and/or extended lactation genetics will make more milk.

Originally Posted by 6monkeys

2. What is a good price for a registered goat of that particular breed?

The lowest price for any goat should be slaughter price, which around here is .85 a lb or around $100-$125. Registration papers don't add value unless the parents and/or grandparents had official production records. Look for *M, *B, or AR on the papers. Around here, good production tested does who are suitable for a family dairy sell for $200-$500.

Originally Posted by 6monkeys

3. Does it really matter if the goat is registered, if the breeders do testing?

No, but I have never heard of an unregistered herd that does testing.

Originally Posted by 6monkeys

4. How much space should the goats have?

IMHO, at least 1/2 acre so they can run and play. Goats are intelligent, so they also get bored.

Originally Posted by 6monkeys

5. Can you buy goats from accross country, and have them shipped? (sorry if this is a really stupid question--I know they do this with dogs, but I highly doubt I would)

Yes. Small kids are flown cargo. Mature animals go by contracted livestock haulers or are handed over at major shows. Many buyers make a road trip so they can see the does' relatives and learn about the breeder's management.

Originally Posted by 6monkeys

6. How hard is it to find AI for the does?

the equipment and semen can all be ordered online. The nitrogen tank to store semen is $300-$1200, the AI equipment is $100-$200, and semen is $5 to $100+ a straw. Expect to use two straws per breeding. You will also need to take an AI class to work all this stuff, which is also not free.

Originally Posted by 6monkeys

7. If you breed your doe to a goat that is not tested for CAE (I think that is the one), is that a big problem?

CAE has been found in semen but I don't know if a doe can get it from a breeding. UC-Davis is the top CAE research, so give them a ring.

Originally Posted by 6monkeys

8. Is it worth it to just get a male goat and avoid the hassle?

For 2 does, probably not. The breeder you buy your does from may set you up with a buck lease or "driveway" breedings to her buck. Although it may vary in location and breed, I have always been able to lease high quality bucks and bring my does or doelings to other breeders' bucks.

[AnnaS]

Originally Posted by 6monkeys

Ok, another question: Can the goats share the yard with chickens?

In regards to price--I called a lady today, and she sells her purebred Nubians for $1000.00 ( I really need a jaw dropping emoticon here). However, she was willing to sell me a 50% for around 350.00. The 50% being Nubian and Boer.

I need that jaw dropping thingy too! There certainly are purebred Nubians worth $1000+. Ones with a stellar pedigree of top production, type, and show records.

BUT a Nubian/Boer x should sell for slaughter or slightly above. ADGA does not allow any Boer blood whatsoever into its herd books. So none of that doe's kids would ever be rigisterable. For $350, you can find a nice, proven, ADGA registered doe.

I have free range chickens here. They need to be kept out of kid pens since they will peck kids and steal their grain. Hay must be stored where roosting chickens won't poop on it. My chicks seem to keep down the fly population. There are also local grazier dairies that swear by hens for fly control.

[6monkeys]

Originally Posted by AnnaS

If you are anywhere near UC-Davis, they have a goat dairy herd of multiple breeds that is DHIA tested, CAE tested, and HIGH quality. I would start there, and spend a day with the students and vets.

Thank you so much for this suggestion!!!! We are not too far from uc davis--would I just call their agg department do you think?