Organic control of worms in Goats

[PatWentworth]

Several folks raising cattle have gotten away from using de-worming medications by supplying cattle with drinking water with apple cider vinegar.

I've tried it with great success as well.

Has anyone tried this with goats? Or is there some other "natural" product that limits worms in goats?

[issylthesthlia]

I use an herbal/organic concoction by the lady at www.fiascofarm.com...

My goats seem to like it and it has also added some gloss to their coats...

[southerngurl]

I think keeping goats' worm burdens low without using chemicals is an entire management system. I don't think you just just "switch" from a chemical wormer to something organic.

I am working towards keeping my goats organically, but currently will use chemicals as needed, so far I have had to use extremely small amounts, actually for the last year, with one exception, only on new stock brought in (because of the stress of the move) and also when I sell animals I make sure they get wormed, and cocci med for kids. But I have a microscope and I'm not afraid to use it . I also check eyelids, you have to use those both together.

But you have to focus on health, the strength of the animal I think. Fresh browse, good minerals, legume and using a little grain as needed is kind of the backbone of my program as far as the foundational health of my goats. I also try very hard to stop the poo to mouth cycle. Use feeders that don't cause your goats to put their feet in them, don't let your goats browse short pastures etc. My goats browse fields that are also frequented by cattle and horses, which will pick up worms and are a dead end to them. Keep stress down. Happy goats are healthy goats.

No, I don't think walking out and glugging some ACV in your water tank will worm your goats. It is good for their health, and anything that is good for their health is going to be good, and maybe even help, but I would never rely on just that one thing.

Keeping animals "organically" is not about doing less, but doing more.

I plan to spend the next few years experimenting and developing a proven system I can use. But for now I don't really like to recommend anything "natural" because I haven't had time to prove things.

[RosewoodfarmVA]

As I see it, prevention is far better than worming. This is accomplished by:

Rotational grazing so that pastures are given atleast 3 months preferably more for parasites to die off.

Grazing browse or wooded areas instead of grass and low pasture, where the worms are more abundant lower down.

Culling (removing/selling/butchering) those goats that consistently get worms.

Grazing plants high in tannins that naturally repel parasite growth (such as oak leaves and lespedeza).

We do all the above and do absolutely no routine (as in monthly) worming. We only worm when a goat shows signs of poor condition and worm load. Some of our herd have never even been wormed once in their 5+ years of life. Ones raised here have no problems with worms, as we both culled for 'wormy' goats (and lost a few) and manage them properly. We treated maybe 5-6 goats at most last year, with a store bought wormer (ivermectin). Sure you can use 'natural' wormers but I've never seen one that works 100% and so it ends up being a repeat treatment and headache!

We graze woodland that has a lot of oak and hickory trees, which are high in tannins. We also have several pastures with Sericea Lespedeza which is a natural parasite inhibitor, meaning parasites cannot grow and reproduce if a goat is routinely eating it. Google Sericea Lespedeza parasite inhibitor and you'll see that it has been proven to reduce parasite loads in infected animals and prevent them in parasite free goats. With proper pasture management you can considerably reduce if not eliminate parasite problems.

[catdance62]

i tried the organic way when I first got goats and it didnt' work for me at all, probably due to my lack of basic goat knowledge.
I could probably do it now, but have learned to do fecals and only worm on an as-needed basis as a result. Plus now I use a good-quality mineral and that makes a big difference.

[steff bugielski]

I second the herbs from Molly's herbal . http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/wormer.htm
I have changed nothing but the herbs and have not only seen a drop in worm load but more milk, healthier looking goats. I am all around pleased with the results. I have been useing them for almost 3 years now.

[DQ]

[QUOTE=PatWentworth;3804708]

I've tried it with great success as well.

QUOTE]

I'm a real stick in the mud about this. how do you define success?

good preventative managment when possible is the best solution.

unfortuantly too many times people say they are 'successful' with this endeavor have nothing more than evidence such as......'my goats look great' or 'my goats don't have any worms'. when they starting with goats that have such a low worm burden due to some other circumstance or that are placed in a very low stocking situation (ideal) that it is impossible to attribute the low parasite count to the 'treatment'. this is dangerous as they often distribute advice that the 'treatments' work to people who are in a situation where worm burdens are likely to be much higher.

for instance. if you have two goats roaming 10 acres of browse in minnesota they will likely have little to no parasite issues. so ac water given to these goats could be mistaken for the 'cure' and that goat owner says to newbie goat owner over here with 10 goats on 2 acres of pasture in alabama...'sure that ac water works great' and a few months later poor newbie goat owner is on this board or others asking why her goats are dieing.

also it pays to note that an anthelmentic that works whether you pull it up out of your garden or buy it at the store, works because it somehow makes the enviroment inhospitable to the parasites or interferes with their basic biological activity. there are plenty of dangerous and noxious substances out there in the natural world that could do the same thing. a big difference is that they haven't been tested for safety and carefully designed to target only the parasite and not the host.

[saanengirl]

I am a graduate student at Fort Valley State University in Georgia, and am part of a research team that is studying sericea lespedeza and its anthelmentic properties. We are currently trying to discover the mechanism by which the condensed tannins in the lespedeza affect the parasites. So far our results in using the sericea have consistently shown a reduced parasite load, but we try to stress that this is only one tool in an overall management strategy. We believe that it is not necessary to worm goats often with chemical dewormers, but that producers need to learn how to recognize when a goat needs to be dewormed. We recommend the FAMACHA method for this.

[valsey]

copper - depending on the worm

http://attra.ncat.org/downloads/goat_barber_pole.pdf

[steff bugielski]

DQ
I have had goats for 12+ yrs. I have had goats die from heavy worm loads when I was learning about goats.
I measure the effectiveness of the herbals as my goats do not have worms.
The added benefit is they look great and milk better because of the very low worm load.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Rotational grazing so that pastures are given atleast 3 months preferably more for parasites to die off.................
................

Great post except nothing is killed off in 3 months. You have to have a deep freeze or very hot and arid conditions....why opinon from up north and the arid west can't be listened to by those in the south.

I do think browse is key, we live in the piney woods of East Texas, the girls, especially the bucks who rarely need to be wormed, live in understory brush, eating with their heads up, with very acid soil.

Biggy for me was copper bolusing and the move to a grey non iron mineral. Also moving from the old sweet feed and grass hay to alfalfa and real grain and not pushing protein. All happened at the same time so can't really say if it is 1, 2, 3 or all 4 things.

Meat goats seem to do find with Famacha, dairygoats...the loss of production is huge with any form of anemia, plus they are simply soo much harder working than meat goats that they will have opportunisitc pnemonia or cocci if you let worm burdens go until you see anemia. Fecal sampling is simply key.

My bottom line isn't organic, but fecal sampling monthly does certainly improve my bottom line, no guessing what works, what dosages work, what routes of meds (orally, injected or poured on) work better. Guessing simply costs way too much in production. Vicki

[saanengirl]

The key with FAMACHA is learning when to deworm based on the color--you don't wait until the eyelids are pale. I use a combination of FAMACHA and fecal egg counts. I normally deworm my does during the dry period with moxidectin if necessary. I moved last summer, and when I did a fecal for the winter deworming I found very low egg counts so my goats did not get dewormed before kidding. My goats were moved to a naive pasture, so there are not a lot of parasites established on the pasture.

In my experience the goats that tend to be most susceptible to parasites are the high producing does, yearling milkers, young bucks, and weaned/underweight kids. Those that are most resistant are dry yearlings, adult wethers, and pretty much any goat that is fat or at least in good body condition. A good feeding program will go a long way towards increasing parasite resistance within your herd.

I try to maintain my herd so that I do not have to deworm lactating does, but if it is necessary to deworm them I generally use pyrantel. I buy a tube of the horse formulation and give half the tube as an initial dose and the other half two weeks later. Pyrantel is out of the body quickly so I don't have to worry about long periods of milk withdrawal.