Castration question

[Cannon_Farms]

I banded my first goat last night, after much mental debate on how to do it.
I worried about the knife method because I can see some one doing it first, but too, it just seems like it would be risky and painful, course so does banding.
What I want to know, is when docking tails and dew claws on puppies we always clamped some hemostats on the area to deaden the area and control bleeding, why cant you band then cut when the area is deadend some, wouldnt that be a good middle ground? Of course cutting below the band then removing the band very soon after. Would you stich or leave the area open?
I dont like the idea of them taking so long to fall off, but at the same time snapping testical strings doesnt sound apealing either... Oh the choices we make... If I only had doelings from now on I would be quite content.

[Rockytopsis]

One reason for me to band it the 4H hand book on meat goats says that there should be no scrotal sack showing in the ring. Then the cut method is used there is some sack left.

Now that being said, in the back of my mind it just is not the same as dew claws or docking tails. When we did our Boston Bull dogs and Cocker Spaniels we did them at 1 day old, not blood to speak of. Just clamp and snip.

We band our bucklings at 3-4 weeks, and the sack is much larger by then and I would not want the risk of snipping the sack and the band slipping off before the band has done it's job.

Again JMO

[Cannon_Farms]

People have used the knife method without any pain relief in the way I was thinking was that it would offer some pain relief and reduce blood loss from the normal knife method, which those that do that say that there isnt any of either but I can say that if you cut me large enough to pull something out its going to hurt.

[catdance62]

we band our boys that need to be wethers (which is almost all of them). Never had a bad experience yet, but I guess it could happen. We do it when they are very young, usually about 2 weeks old, but some goats testicles descend faster than others, so we take that into consideration.

[hoofinitnorth]

You can use pain relief when you cut. Banamine works well, and apparently a local of lidocaine is good but I haven't tried it yet. Probably will try it this year.

[chamoisee]

I've thought about the same thing, but the fact of the matter is that they bleed very little, especially if done young. I have seen papercuts that bled more. My experience with the knife method is that it is more humane, especially if done in the first week. They yell during the 30 seconds it's being done, walk differently for an hour or two, and go straight back to nursing mom right after it's done. They don't fall down on their sides and yell or act like they going to die the way I've seen lambs do after banding.

The bottom line is that castrating is unpleasant, but the younger they are when it's done, and the faster the pain is done with, the better they will do. The knife gets the job done quickly and then it's over. There's no waiting weeks for it to fall off. Also, (one of my primary reasons for using this method) when you use the knife, you know without a doubt that both testicles were removed. There are no surprise breedings later on!

[goatsareus]

Originally Posted by Helianthus

I've thought about the same thing, but the fact of the matter is that they bleed very little, especially if done young. I have seen papercuts that bled more. My experience with the knife method is that it is more humane, especially if done in the first week. They yell during the 30 seconds it's being done, walk differently for an hour or two, and go straight back to nursing mom right after it's done. They don't fall down on their sides and yell or act like they going to die the way I've seen lambs do after banding.

The bottom line is that castrating is unpleasant, but the younger they are when it's done, and the faster the pain is done with, the better they will do. The knife gets the job done quickly and then it's over. There's no waiting weeks for it to fall off. Also, (one of my primary reasons for using this method) when you use the knife, you know without a doubt that both testicles were removed. There are no surprise breedings later on!

This has been my experience as well. The first year we had goats, I had a vet student show me how to use the knife method. I have been doing all my, and others, castrations since then. I try to castrate baby bucks around 5 to 7 days of age

[RosewoodfarmVA]

We raise commercial meat goats and I just figured Id jump in with something you may not have thought of. In the commercial market here in NC and VA, castrated males bring far less $$ than intact. Any buyer at an auction house or buying for ethnic markets wants intact males. This is because in the etnic markets a castrated male is considered mutiliated and unworthy of being eaten for religious feasts. I don't know what you are planning to do with your males, I'm assuming they will be for meat as you are castrating and so won't use them for future breeding. Just be aware if you plan to sell for meat that you probably will not receive good market price for them.

Also, goats, like any other animal, have hormones that cause fast growth, and the removal of their male parts greatly reduces the natural hormone production, causing slower growth and stamina. Waiting until they have grown somewhat before castration (same as bull calves castrated at 6 mo) will allow them to produce the fast growth hormones while still preventing inbreeding. Of course you could also separate all young males from the herd and only allow your chosen male to run with the ladies.

The other advantage of not castrating is that you don't know the quality and growth rate of a young male until it's grown! You may be inadvertently castrating the fastest growing, most muscled, best behaved male you have! If you don't castrate, you can choose from the best to use as future breeders, then sell the leftovers as meat males, receiving the highest market price because they haven't been 'mutiliated,' in the terms of the ethnic religious society. I've seen beautiful, healthy, muscled males that would be perfect for breeding sold low price for meat, because they had been castrated and couldn't be used.

Sorry to disagree with everyone just thought it might be helpful to share our experiences. I've found that, other than the 'pet' people who like wethers(of which there are few) and the 'show' goat stuff which has already been mentioned above (of which I know nothing), castration is a major disadvantage when you are trying to market young males for top $$ in the ethnic meat goat market.

[hoofinitnorth]

Up here the ethnic buyers also like to have the horns on. Very few folks up here that breed any numbers will not do this. A few have tried and been sorry they didn't get the money up front when they are left with a horned buck.

The issue of not knowing what you have until it's grown is worth considering for anyone that is into long-term breeding. Last year I kept back two bucks. One I had intended to keep and continually evaluate as a herd sire. The other I wanted to just evaluate and eventually wether. He will be wethered and sold this year. He isn't what I want in a herdsire and I have nicer bucks, but it was very interesting to watch him grow and go through a few "weird" stages. I have a better understanding of what that pairing produced that year. It may be different if I repeat that breeding, of course, but I think it was worth the year of food, especially considering the NDs don't eat much and the extra heat from his body helped keep the other younger bucks warm all winter.