You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of Homesteading Today!    
Homesteading Forum

Go Back   Homesteading Forum > Livestock Forums > Goats


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 04/29/09, 05:58 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,222
Worming milking does-a few questions to ponder

On milking does what wormer do you all use? Is it the herbal wormer from hoeggers or the other goat supply stores or is it Ivermectin or fenbendazole or cydectin? Also if you use something other than the herbal wormer what about withdraw time in the milk? Or if it is with Ivermectin does withdraw time really matter as it is the same stuff that is used in throd world countries to worm people?

Thanks!
__________________
Sarah Patterson
M & L Farm
Lamanchas, lamancha cross, Sable and Sable cross

You can also find us on facebook! M&L Farm

http://www.mandllamanchas.com *UPDATED*
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04/29/09, 06:50 PM
Mrs. Jo's Avatar  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: MN
Posts: 970
#1 You need to use what works in your area, for your worm problems.

#2, You need to pay attention to the milk withdrawals on the wormer (or any medication or medicated food) that you give the goats. You should be able to find this info if you google it, or go over to Darygoatinfo and check out their 101 section. I usually print this information out and have it on hand.

Anything that you can't find out about just be cautious and withhold it for a week or so. Use it to feed animals or make soap with, or milk paint.

Technically, it's not the wormer itself that comes through the milk. It's usually the carriers. We no longer use herbal wormers here due to their lack of effectiveness.
__________________
my posts and pictures are my exclusive property and may not be used without my permission.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04/29/09, 10:15 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 2,743
We've been using the herbal wormers from Molly's and they seem to be doing the trick. The girls haven't been chemically wormed in 6 months and their fecals are still coming back good.

Our vet (granted, a meat goat vet with little dairy experience) just told us that you should withhold for 30 days after using chemical wormer. That's a lot of milk...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04/30/09, 12:55 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,350
I use herbal wormer but i do use chemical wormer too. It will work good as long you are doing copper issues. Like for example if you are not giving loose mineral that dont have high copper and it probably will be more likely problem for the goats to be wormy.. And I like to use chemical while they are not in milk. Like dry or bucks or pregnant. It works great for us.. U know.. I keep using copper and loose mineral that have high in copper and i am happy with it..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04/30/09, 06:00 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 3,830
Molly's herbal here almost 3 years now with little to no worm load.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04/30/09, 03:32 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 3,830
Well my milk inspector was just here and I asked him about wormers and milk withdraw.
He said if you are milking the goat and selling the milk , you can not use Ivomec, Cydectin or valbazen. They all must be used when the goat is dry. The only chemical wormers allowed are those who are labeled for goats. And then you must follow the recommended withholding times.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04/30/09, 04:04 PM
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 839
Question for those of you who use herbal.

Would you sell or give milk to someone who is pregnant? I know wormwood can cause miscarriage, that would concern me terribly. What if one of your customer gave milk that had traces of wormwood in it to a friend who was pg unknowingly. I know i'd not want to drink it while pg.

I was just wondering if that concerned any of you too.

ETA: I just read that wormwood should not be used by pg (we all knew) or lactating women. So if a nursing woman cannot use it, doesn't it make sense that a nursing animal shouldn't either if it may be consumed by pg women?

Last edited by TennesseeMama23; 04/30/09 at 04:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04/30/09, 05:57 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 2,743
Molly's herbal wormer is two formulas. The first is given ever 6-8 weeks and contains wormwood. The second is given weekly and does not contain it. This is what is on the website:

Quote:
Milk withholding time for human consumption:

* Formula #1 Wormwood Combination Dietary Suppliment * : None...
BUT take note... Because this is an herb mixture and not a drug, it has not been studied by the FDA and can legally be labeled as having no milk withholding time/withdrawal. BUT since Formula #1 contains Wormwood (see the Safety Note below), and Wormwood is not recommended by many Herbalists for breast feeding humans, you may decided that if you are feeding the milk to very young human infants (under 6 months of age or so), just to be absolutely "safe and sure ", to withhold the wormwood milk from the infant for 24 hours. The milk is perfectly safe for older human children and adults, as it is for the offspring of the lactating animal. If you decide to withhold, just save enough milk to last the infant child an extra day and use the 24 hour withdrawal milk for your own drinking or to make cheese. It's not like you have to throw it out.
* Formula #2 Weekly Worm Formula & Tonic: None
As well as this:

Quote:
Safety Notes:

* Used as directed, this combination system is safe for all pregnant and lactating animals. (The Wormwood Combination is not given to pregnant does)
* Formula #1 Wormwood Combination Dietary Suppliment *Safety Notes:
o Since this is an herb mixture and not a drug, it can legally be labeled as safe to use in animals when pregnant (which is what most other herbal wormers) BUT since this formula contains Wormwood, which is an "Emmenagogue" (An emmenagogue is an herb which encourages menstrual bleeding, and so it could induce loss of uterine lining which may cause miscarriage.) it is not considered safe by Herbalists for use in pregnant humans or animals. I recommend not give to pregnant animals. If you are using another herbal worm product, read the label or find out what is in it before you buy it, and if it contains Wormwood, you should take this into consideration. You should use Formula #1 right before breeding and then start using it again the day after the animal gives birth.
o The chemical name for the principle active ingredient in wormwood is thujone. Thujone is a monoterpene (type of primary alcohol found in plant matter) that is often attributed with having a hallucinogenic effect. The liquor Absinthe, the popular in the 19th century, known for its mind-altering effects, is made with Wormwood. Wormwood is not recommended for breastfeeding mothers because thujone might be passed to the baby in the mothers milk, though this has not been studied.
o Excessive amounts of Wormwood can be damaging to the liver, kidneys, and nervous system. Do not use in animals who suffer from seizures, kidney problems, or liver disease.
o Wormwood Worm Combination contains some Black Walnut. Black Walnut is safe for most animals, but horses should not consume it because horses can have an adverse reaction to a certain mold that sometimes grows on the hulls of the black walnut. If you intend to use this formula for horses, please check the horses box when you place an order and I will mix a special formula that does not contain Black Walnut.
o Black Walnut, if ingested in excessive amounts, in dogs and cats, may lead to diarrhea and gastritis.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04/30/09, 06:34 PM
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 839
Yes, I read that, but that doesn't answer my question about how people are possibly selling it to pg women and not disclosing possible problems.

Maybe all who use it are not selling/giving away milk for a reasonable withhold time?


It is just something I have wondered about.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04/30/09, 06:59 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 2,743
We are selling our milk through herd subscriptions and we haven't been selling long enough to have used the Formula #1 since the kids were taking all the milk. It's coming up here pretty soon and we plan to simply give the wormer in the PM and then use the next days milk for personal use (we have two lactating mothers in our subscriptions). Then it's back to selling. That's the plan at least.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04/30/09, 07:30 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,222
We have had great success with ivermectin, our fecals show it as do the hair coats in our goats etc. I am going to look into Molly's and the Hoegger's herbal for when we actually get around to drinking their milk; as of right now we have some piggy kids that between the four of them are drinking alot, and when we are ready to drink it will switch to the herbal wormer. Thanks for the info on the copper and herbal wormers. The goats have free choice of the loose mineral and baking soda.
__________________
Sarah Patterson
M & L Farm
Lamanchas, lamancha cross, Sable and Sable cross

You can also find us on facebook! M&L Farm

http://www.mandllamanchas.com *UPDATED*
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05/01/09, 06:44 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 3,830
I also bring the milk in the house for home use the day after they get the Wormwood Combo.
Personally I would rather have these herbs in my milk than those nasty chemicals anyday. But I try not to ingest chemicals in any of my food as is the case with most of my customers.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05/02/09, 12:08 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,350
My two frienda is using molly's herbal wormer. They hated it . I dont know why. They been begging me to sell some of my herbal wormer that I make it my own and they really want to use mine... So I finally let them and they love it. Oh well. I have been making my own herbal wormer. I like mine. I have been using the wormwood but I dont use herbal wormer while they are pregnant. I used chemical wormer while the does are dry or pregnant. That what I do. Like what a lot of people say give chemical wormer 4 weeks before kidding. Of course I do that too. And I do give chemical wormer a month before breeding time. That what I do. But I always use herbal wormer during milking times. That is all I do.. It works great for us..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05/02/09, 02:24 PM
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 839
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafgoatlady View Post
My two frienda is using molly's herbal wormer. They hated it . I dont know why. They been begging me to sell some of my herbal wormer that I make it my own and they really want to use mine... So I finally let them and they love it. Oh well. I have been making my own herbal wormer. I like mine. I have been using the wormwood but I dont use herbal wormer while they are pregnant. I used chemical wormer while the does are dry or pregnant. That what I do. Like what a lot of people say give chemical wormer 4 weeks before kidding. Of course I do that too. And I do give chemical wormer a month before breeding time. That what I do. But I always use herbal wormer during milking times. That is all I do.. It works great for us..
Do you give or sell milk to people? If you are using wormwood and a pg woman drinks it her baby's life could be in danger. Did you know that, I'm very curious?

The reason Molly doesn't use wormwood all the time is it is harmful to goats long term.

This is what concerns me-people are out there and don't know wormwood can be deadly to an unborn baby. They think "herbal=safe", when in reality it isn't.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05/02/09, 07:17 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,350
Tennmama, Yes I know that it is dangerous for pg women.. I always tell them what I give my goats the herbal wormer. And they normally tell me that they dont want to buy the milk becuz of the herbs. Which it is very understandable. But most I notice that older people or mom that already have kids always buys the milk from me.. U know..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05/02/09, 07:18 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,350
Oh i forgot to add that. I always drank the goats milk when i was pregnant with all three kids. My kids are fine. I am fine. It is just up to pregnant people. U know. But I always tells them first before I handed the milk out.. U know..
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:11 AM.