Question about a doe......

[shiandpete.1]

I have a 5 year old nigerian cross that is due to kid sooner or later...I don't have the exact date as she kept breaking into the bucks pen and eventually I gave up because I couldn't keep her or her sister out of the pen. (They butted the hog panels until they bent and then used their backs to push it up and crawl under) Anyways she is tiny, weighing maybe 40lbs when not pregnant and unfortunately the buck was a young La Mancha, I am now kicking myself for not aborting the pregnancy. She has had kids before one weighing almost 4 lbs at birth. I have been so careful feeding her, not letting her get too much protien, or too much fat so that hopefully the kid/s didn't get too big for her. Well today she has had just a small amount of clear mucus on her vulva, her udder is tight yet no milk in her teats, and she has lost her ligaments in her tail, so much that my fingers can almost touch each other when feeling her. She has been just laying around today, nibbling on her grass hay but her eyes just do not look good. They are a bit sunk in and not as bright as they usually are. She also didn't want to go out of the barn to the day pen this morning. I can hear her breathing, but that could just be because of the load of kids she is carrying. What usually is the cause of sunk in eyes? They are not mucussy and her nose is clear. Could this be because she is close to kidding or is she getting sick?

I also can't feel the kids as well as I have been able to in the past couple of weeks, They appear to have moved from the right side to maybe the middle.

[Cannon_Farms]

some does will look depressed when its kidding time, but im always concerned. If you have it id give her some b12 and keep her where you can keep an eye on her. I dont have much experence with bigger goats breeding smaller ones, perhaps ask paul what a normal lamancha kid weighs, 4lbs is a good sized kid.

[Feral Nature]

Make sure she can get to her water easily. If it is too far away, she may not be drinking enough and sunken in eyes are an indicator of dehydration which can contribute to other problems as well. Also, make sure water is fresh. Just my 2cents on the water. As far as the kid being to big, hope for small size and good birth position

[hoofinitnorth]

You may wish to drench her with warm water with a little blackstrap molasses added. Or you could add dextrose. MFO might be another option. I second the idea to give her B12 but clarify that the preferred B12 would be the fortified complex. Also, try offering her some baking soda. This year my girls really went after it around kidding time.

Other than the sunken eyes, she sounds like she's ready to kid. Hope you can be there for the delivery. I just went through a very traumatic delivery with one of my does and she was experienced and bred to another ND. Kids were 4.75 pounds and 4.00 pounds and she only had two, but the presentations were difficult and she had the buckling lodged head-first when I arrived to help. Eventually had to turn him and deliver him rear feet first.

Do you have a local mentor that can help you? Good luck!!

[shiandpete.1]

Daphne is now resting comfortably under the heat lamps in the barn after a drenching of 60cc of proylene glycol, 20cc of a oral microbial and electrolyte paste and a small amount of grain with a drizzle of blackstrap molasses. She is still labored in her breathing, but her eyes look better, not so sunk into her head. After talking to my vet that I use for goats and is a fellow 4-H leader in our county, she thought the goat is possibly going into ketosis(aka Pregnancy Toxemia) because of her heavy kid load and dehydration. I am going to nutradrench her this evening before we go to bed and check continually on her through the night. I am hoping she will kid tonight or early tomorrow, but am also considering washing and lubing up the hand and arm to see if we are dilated and see if we can get things to moving along faster. Anyone have any other suggestions on getting the kidding to moving along faster as it is really the only cure for toxemia.

[shiandpete.1]

It is gonna be a long night, she is down again...

[ShyAnne]

Oh no. Please keep us updated.

[hoofinitnorth]

Hmm, I tend to lean more toward worrying about hypocalcemia than ketosis. What made her think ketosis?

[shiandpete.1]

She thought ketosis by all her symptoms and that she was dehydrated and that can often cause ketosis. I just went down and checked on her and she was sleeping soundly and only woke up when the other doe that is in with her realized I was looking at them. I am still going to nutradrench her this evening and maybe give her another handful of grain and make sure she can get to the hay without much effort. I could see her kids moving around on the right side when she was laying down, looked like two pigs in a gunny sack by the way her belly was poking here and there. I haven't checked to see if she is dialated figured I had terrorized her enough for one day with out sticking my hand up there. Her eyes are looking better but she just seems depressed now and not herself. I will keep you all posted. I am wondering if I should have the vet out to induce labor or let her go until she naturally does it herself.

Daphne has been my sweet girl since she was born here 5 years ago. She was born weighing less than a pound, since her twin brother stole all the nutrients from her in the womb. The night she was born my husband sat under the heat lamp, with her wrapped in a towel and the blowdryer while I waddled (I was 7 months pregnant) to the store for store bought goats milk, cod liver oil, Karo syrup and eggs to make a concoction to give her a bit more energy because mama goat hated her. She made it through the first night and then thrived until she got an infection in her knee joint and we almost lost her again at two weeks old. So we nursed her back to health, and she has been here since.She holds a special place in my heart and her daily butt scratching and the nuzzling she does with me makes my day.

[prairiedog]

she needs calcium Ketosis is usually the result of hypocalcemia

[cathleenc]

I'll be looking forward to a good update as soon as you are able this morning! Hope everything went super well and that babies are here and mama is up and nursing.

[shiandpete.1]

No babies. She ws depressed this morning and refused her grain, hay and warm alfalfa mash (I only have cubes and had to soak them so she could eat it) and just wants to lay her head on you. I have the vet coming out to check on her since she is now completely off of feed and has not been chewing her cud.

[DairyGoatSlave]

if she starts kidding and the kids really stuck have someone help you flip her upside down, her feet in the air, at this angle the pelvic bone is larger and helps the kid pass easyer iv done it twice, the last one was with manson when he had a leg and head stuck, he slid right out. LM babys (from what iv seen) go from about 3-5llbs at birth, hope that helps and it comes out easy!

[ShyAnne]

Hoping all goes well with her.

[shiandpete.1]

Ok the vet is gone, I got my running around done for more supplies I needed for the goat, some stuff to make chili, more stove pellets and we are settled down for the blizzard.

Daphne has a whole list of ailments....pneumonia (which explains the heavy hard breathing) dehydration, ketosis, and at least quads that are not ready to come yet. She is on amoxicillian, propylene glycol 3-4 times a day, at least a quart of electrolytes if not more, nutra drench, and lots of love. She is just putting out all she takes in for all the kids she is carrying. Her vulva is just not soft enough and she is not dilated, so we figure at least a couple more weeks for her. Which is good, TLC will bring her through this and round the clock care.

Thank goodness for a vet who knows goats, most vets around here would have turned me away.

[ShyAnne]

I am sorry she has all this but glad you know. I hope she starts turninng the corner very soon and starts to feel better.
Please keep us posted

[hoofinitnorth]

Originally Posted by DairyGoatSlave

LM babys (from what iv seen) go from about 3-5llbs at birth, hope that helps and it comes out easy!

That small? Heck, all my ND babies, even my two sets of quads, were around that size this year!

[dragonchick]

I thought with ketosis they needed calcium? I didn't see any prescribed.

[shiandpete.1]

She didn't prescribe any cacium because the ketosis isn't a calcium deficiency but caused from carrying a large load of babies and that has caused her not to metabolize the carbohydrates she has been taking in correctly. I found a great site that explained it even better, http://www.goatworld.com/articles/pr...ytoxemia.shtml
Also what I found interesting is the high prevelance of ketosis in draught conditions. We have been in a drought here and it has been difficult to find extremely high quality hay. I had been supplementing with chaffehay but Daphne didn't particularly like it and would only take a couple of nibbles and then take off to eat the free choice grass hay we offer. She would also get a little bit of grain each day, but evidentally not enough to avoid ketosis. Daphne is usually a goat that only has a single kid but this year is different she is having a whole litter.

My daughter just came in from giving her more electrolytes, and nutradrench and Daphne put up a fight not wanting to take it. After she was done Daphne trotted across the stall, gave some dirty looks and nibbled some more hay. Yeah we appear to be feeling a bit better today!

[DairyGoatSlave]

hmmm, maybe lm babys a larger, thats just from what i guessed my boy and my firineds kids weigh... i dont actualy have a scale so who knows. Shiandpete.1 i hope your doe gets even better!!