HELP!! newborn problems

[boilerjoe_96]

little doe just born, has two golf ball type masses under jaw on neck where the two meet.

http://pictures.sprintpcs.com/share....tate=RETRIEVED

any thoughts?

Joe

[dragonchick]

No idea here but she looks premature. I hope someone can give you an answer but this one might be one for the vet or vet school.

[LaManchaPaul]

Wow, sorry. I've never seen or heard of this. Best to you and the goaties.
Paul

[Goat Servant]

Gosh did she make it? I have no ideas either.

[Starsmom]

The first thing that comes to mind is a goiter.

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/milk_neck.htm

[dragonchick]

Would a goiter show up in a neonate that had not suckled yet?

[boilerjoe_96]

both are still alive...barely.... should I take them in and make them bottle babies... I am now in texas so at least it is warm.

Both are very bald... not sure what I should be doing right now....

[Patty0315]

I could not get the pics open but there are 2 different kinds of goiters .

A milk goiter from drinking lots of rich milk . These go away after weaning

Second is a goiter from iodine def during pregnancy . Most babies do not make it.


Patty

[dragonchick]

If mom won't accept them then its up to you. I really don't know what I would do as I have never been in this situation. I would have a vet look at st least the 1 to find out what that is and what can be done to prevent it if anything.

Are the masses restricting her breathing? swallowing? If it is than I would put her down as she will die soon of either starvation or oxygen deprivation.

I amso sorry you are having to deal with this. I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do.

[dragonchick]

Would iodine after birth help?

[bloogrssgrl]

I don't really have any ideas either other than to try to get colostrum into them. Are they showing any kind of sucking reflex?

They might have just come too early. I'm not sure just how premature a kid can be and still make it. I just did a quick search and found these sites:
http://kinne.net/saveprem.htm
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ar...nedKids06.html

Maybe there will be something helpful on one of those. Good luck with them.

[boilerjoe_96]

Well I milked 1 side of momma.... and brought them inside. Both are nearly naked...1 has a little more fur and doesn't have the neck nodules... THat one had the sucking reflex...the one with the goiter type thing doesn't appear to want to suck.

I will keep advised. I couldn't imagine idodine defficiency that bad, as she eats the same thing my other does eat and they had healthy kids.

I did have to trailer her 2 weeks ago, maybe that had something to do with it, but another delivered the next day after traveling and both are fine....

[dragonchick]

I doubt the trailer ride had anything to do with the problem unless it caused her to deliver early, it didn't cause the goiters though. I would give the one without the suck reflex some Vitamin E or a little BO-SE if you have it.

[bloogrssgrl]

Regarding the one that doesn't want to suck, you might want to try tickling its little patooty - sometimes that will stimiulate the reflex. Or maybe just get a few drops in its mouth and see if that rouses some interest.

[LomahAcres]

There was some discussion on this board a while back about a kind of weed (flixweed? I think). It's my understanding that if the does eat this it can cause the kids to have large goiters and be born with little to no hair. I don't think the kids survived either. I don't know much about it myself but this looks an awful lot like it to me, the pictures on the older topics don't work but somethings are hard to forget. Try doing a search on this board for goiters or flixweed and see if you find anything.

Here is a link to one I don't know if it helps much,

OH MY GOSH!!!-Flixweed in year 3!!

[betsy h.]

these are premies- and if I were to have this, I would have to make a choice here- try to save them or put them down.

This looks like iodine defiency goiter- not sure how to deal with it like this. You can get feed grade organic iodine crystals and I suppose you could tube them 'carefully' with no more than an ounce of an iodine solution, BUT there's the problem of them being premies.

I've seen folks raise them out before and it takes a steady hand to do it- a box with warm bolstering to keep them on their briskets- the danger in premies is them rolling over and not having enough strength to roll back, so they suffocate. They also need moist air so their lungs will develop more- a humidifier like for a child's bedroom that blows warm moisture into the kids' area will also help keep their skin moist.

And if you can get the vet to give you a shot or two of Dexamethasone to help their lungs mature, this will go a long way to help out.

So, I do not envy the choices you must make right now- you will make one that is the most correct for you-

[copperpennykids]

The lack of hair and the goiters just screams iodine deficiency.

You can pull them through, but will probably be late maturing/poor doers.

Just had some good friends contact me about the same thing (the kids were 2 weeks early as well). I'll be doing some reading up on the subject....usually it is caused by something that happened to the doe, nutritionally speaking, during her early pregnancy.

Keep them warm. tube them if they can't suck. Or just put them down....only you can decide how heroic you want your efforts to be.

[Jcran]

This sounds REMARKABLY like a problem my neighbor had four years ago. Premature babies with HUGE goiters and little or no fur. It was caused by the goats eating an invasive weed called "flixweed" or false tansy. It was in the hay they ate for the year prior to the horrific births. They lost over half their kid crop and the ones who lived were affected pretty badly; small birth weights, slow growth. The flixweed has a chemical that affects the thyroid. I looked up a range specialist at Colorado University, who's name I cannot remember, Knight maybe?, who tested the hay and said the flixweed had HIGH concentrations of the chemical. If you have any more issues, I can put you in contact with my neighbor who'd be happy to talk to you about her experience. I went over and took pictures of some of the worst cases if you want to see them.

[DairyGoatSlave]

i hope everything turns out okay for you

[Jcran]

I googled the professor's name and came up with the abstract on the article he wrote about my neighbor's herd...here's the abstract, copied below.

You might want to contact him directly. I believe his name is Anthony Knight and I think I found his email in the university's staff directory. He was really nice and he got really interested after I put him in contact with my neighbor.


Home > CABI Abstract

Title: Flixweed (Descurainia sophia): a goitrogenic plant.
Personal Authors: Knight, A. P., Stegelmeier, B. L.
Author Affiliation: Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523, USA.
Editors: Panter, K. E., Wierenga, T. L., Pfister, J. A.
Document Title: Poisonous plants: global research and solutions

Abstract:
A herd of 28 pregnant Boer goats fed grass hay containing 10-15% flixweed produced 59 kids, of which 40.7% (17 males and 7 females) were either born dead, or died shortly after birth. Many of the affected kids (6 male and 5 females) were hairless with obvious thyroid hyperplasia and had abnormally large birth weights (7.0-7.5 kg). Glucosinolate analysis of the flixweed found in the hay revealed significant levels of 3-butenyl (gluconapin) and allyl (sinigrin) glucosinolate. Subsequent removal of the flixweed from the goat's diet and providing an iodine-containing mineral prevented further occurrence of goitre in the herd. Plants that are goitrogenic contain glucosinolates, a group of sulfur-containing glucosides found throughout the plant but especially in the seeds. Few glucosinolates are goitrogenic and the one that is most goitrogenic is 2-hydroxy-3-butenyl glucosinolate (gluconapin), which is the primary glucosinolate isolated from flixweed. The glucosinolate-derived thiocyanates inhibit the uptake of iodine by the thyroid gland and at high doses over prolonged periods, decrease thyroid hormones (thyroxine T3 and T4).