Newbie needs help! Does due and/or just delivered

[ValerieM]

Hi all!
I'm a brand new member of Homesteading Today and am really new at having goat babies too!

We have 2 does, Dolly and Princess. Dolly is a 1/2 Nubian 1/2 Toggenburg; Princess is a Nubian.

They were bred around the same time but we don't know EXACTLY when (yes, we learned our lesson and will not let them run together anymore!).

Dolly had a baby boy yesterday afternoon. Everything went fine, apparently. We weren't home at the time and found them, I believe, shortly after she gave birth. She then delivered the afterbirth just fine and ate it. Gross. The baby seems healthy, and Dolly is eating and drinking well.

My question about her is this: Her udder is still very small. It never did seem to get any bigger as she got closer to delivery and even now, almost a day later, is still quite small. I can "cup" each side in my hand. I can feel a slightly hard "lump" in one side of her udder. Could this be causing her to not bag up? What do you suppose could be the reason why she doesn't appear to have any milk? This is her first baby. She is 3 years old.

The baby is latching on just fine, but will only suck a few times on each teat. He keeps going back and forth, only sucking for a few seconds on one side before switching to the other. It doesn't seem like he's getting anything. But he acts happy and is walking around just fine.

Okay, on to my other doe, Princess. She is also 3 years old and is pregnant for the first time. We *thought* she was bred before the other doe (Dolly), but now we're completely in doubt. She is way bigger, both in the belly and in the udder, than Dolly was, and we've had her penned up in the barn since early January 'cause we thought that's when she was due.

I haven't been able to feel her ligaments since yesterday noon, but she has no signs whatsoever of starting labor any time soon. There is very little movement of the babies that I can see/feel (up until today I've been able to see a ton of little bony parts jutting out of her belly). There is no drainage of any kind. She is eating (though not as much as I'd like- I've added some molasses and a bit of corn to her feed to get more calories and carbs in her), and drinking. She has free choice hay as well.

So, I guess my question with Princess is: is it normal to not be able to feel the ligaments this long without something happening? And why is there hardly any movement of the babies? I'm scared to death that there is something wrong.

I apologize for the length of this post. I wanted to make sure I gave you all enough information. Thanks so much for your time.

~Valerie

[farmmom]

My first timers had very small udders. The second time around is when the udders finally got some size on them. You will be able to feel firmness in the udder. This is normal.

[Backfourty,MI.]

I think if Dolly wasn't producing enough milk for her baby it would go down pretty fast. At this age even 1 day with out momma's milk they would be so weak & not up running around. Watch when he gets done sucking to see if you see white foam or milk by his mouth or better yet, try to milk just a squirt or two so you know there's milk.
As for Princess I would keep a good watch on her since she is probly really close with her ligaments gone. Maybe you don't see boney parts because they are moving into birthing position. I'm not sure about this but it seems if there was something wrong you'd be able to tell in the doe's action's.

[ValerieM]

Okay, I just tried "milking" Dolly just to see if any milk would come out and I only got a couple drops. 'Course, I've never milked anything before so I may have not been doing it right. I've not seen any milk or foam on the baby's mouth.

Princess still hasn't shown any news signs- though she seems to be laying down quite a bit. No visible distress or discomfort.

~Valerie

[Bearfootfarm]

If the kid is up and nursing 24 hrs after birth, he's probably getting all he needs.
Milk production will pick up over the next few weeks, and then start to taper off.
Just keep an eye on him and he will let you know if he needs more

[Frenchy]

its been years since I have had any goats birthing around here but if I remember correctly my does always seemed distracted an laying down getting up an moving over to lay down again not long before they started kidding......just my two cents worth there hope everything turns out good for you best of luck

[Jyllie63]

I had kids born last spring (first time) and it seemed very normal that they would go back and forth to each teat...only sucking a few seconds on each. It sounds like things are going well...congratulations! Any pics?

[ValerieM]

Well the little guy must be getting enough milk 'cause he's been running and jumping this afternoon already! Here's some pictures at one day old
:






~Valerie

[Minelson]

He is so cute! Great pictures...what's his name? Welcome to baby goats and the forum! You did good and you are going to have so much fun with the babies!

[Jyllie63]

Awe...he is so cute!

[ValerieM]

His name is Willy. He was named by my 10 year old daughter who "owns" the mom, Dolly.
We didn't intend on keeping any boy babies, but we just might have to change our minds! :baby04:

~Valerie

[Jyllie63]

Originally Posted by ValerieM

His name is Willy. He was named by my 10 year old daughter who "owns" the mom, Dolly.
We didn't intend on keeping any boy babies, but we just might have to change our minds! :baby04:

~Valerie

Yes...I was in that same boat last year. We now how 2 doelings and 2 wethers as pets LOL. They were our first kids though so I told my 8 year old dd that this years WILL ge sold LOL.

[Backfourty,MI.]

He is just the cutest little guy!! But Baby goats are addictive because they are sooo Darned Cute!
I would keep an eye on Princess, if she seems alright & eating & drinking & not acting sick or in any distress then I would just keep an eye on her for now. When you know your goats & how they normally act, you'll pick up on anything that seems abnormal pretty fast.

[ValerieM]

Thanks for all the support you guys have given me thus far. Dolly and her now 2 1/2 day old son are doing great. No concern there anymore.

NOW:
Princess was in labor all night. She was standing and would occasionally stretch her back out... did this for at least 7 hours. I went out to check on her several times during the night. At 4:30, she was very much in labor- but looked very exhausted. Everytime she would push a little muzzle would show, then would go back in. I called the vet's emergency number and he came out. He pushed the baby back in, grabbed it's legs and pulled it out. It was a HUGE baby boy-- DEAD. Next he pulled out a tiny little girl-- ALIVE! Next he pulled out another girl- she was big just like her brother and also DEAD.

I'm getting to the point: Princess is completely worn out and is acting in a daze. She hasn't talked to her baby girl or smelled her or licked her or anything. I got the baby all cleaned off and dry and I was able to get her to nurse a couple of times successfully. But NOW, Princess won't have anything to do with her. She is currently in the process of expelling the afterbirth, and will not even let the baby get near her. My husband ran to town to get colostrum replacer if we need to go that route. I have kid milk replacer if we need it as well.

My doe that kidded two days ago will not let this new baby nurse either. She's so sad and unwanted!

So any advice? I will bottle feed if I have to, but I'm hoping to some how get Princess to accept her.

Thanks!

~Valerie

[LittleRedHen]

Do you have any goo anywhere from your other goats kidding? spread it on the doeling. Goat experts have some other ways but you want her to think (by smell) that its her baby too

[prairiedog]

Milk out her colostrum. Forget the replacer

[ValerieM]

When she stands up (which is rare) I try milking her and I can't get even a drop. I've never milked before, and she's never been milked before- so neither one of us really knows what to do. And her teats are TINY!

She doesn't seem to be doing well, from the looks of things. She did drink some water, but hasn't eaten anything and she's still trying to pass the afterbirth. She is just so tired and seems totally out of it.

After the vet had pulled the kids, he gave her Oxytocin, a pain killer, and an antibiotic.

~Valerie

[Minelson]

If you end up having to bottle feed her use regular warmed up milk from the grocery store. I have heard of so many bad stories about using replacer and lots of good reports on regular cows milk. For Princess I would worm her. For an energy boost mix together 2 parts Karo syrup, 1 part molasses, 1 part corn oil. If you don't have all that just some warm water with some molasses. Some probios would probably be good too. I would also give her a shot of fortified vit B. She may not want her baby because she is exhausted. poor girl...it's a good thing you called the vet!

[Beulah Gardens]

Poor gal, I'd give her a minute, she has got to be sooo tired. I would give her something to boost her energy, molasses water, goat drench, sugar cube,something. The baby can nurse while she is laying down ~obviously not first choice but I have done it. Two years ago it took me a long time to pull a huge kid. and momma was so out of it by the time I was done that I had to roll her on her side and let him nurse. Last year she had trips...I liked that much better. Keep working with her and the baby, I'd bet she is just so tired and sore she can't focus on it right now. vit B and calcium(tums) wouldn't hurt either.

[ValerieM]

Okay, here's an update on my Princess. She is doing much better after resting all day and drinking some molasses water and also fresh water. She is eating a bit of hay, bit still won't eat her grain. She's moving around a bit more and seems to be more aware of what's going on. She still won't accept the baby though. She'll let the baby come closer to her, but as soon as the baby even sniffs at her she moves away. I've tried milking her and can't get a drop out- I don't know if she's just not letting it down or what. And she hates to have me try!

The baby is doing great even without her mama's care. We've decided to bottlefeed using whole milk with a little bit of my other doe's milk added in. Here's a picture of the baby girl. Her name is Lucky (since the vet said she's lucky to be alive).