Opinions and is this really an Apine?

[Raynewolfe]

Got this girl last year. Shes supposed to be around 3 years old and an alpine. Shes about 27" tall (at the shoulder) or so though. What do you all think? What bred, how well built and what is she worth (Wondering if I made a good deal or not)? Even sized udders, dry but been bred twice and my only complaint is that shes a little skittish. But she will go anywhere for a little food. Thanks in advance!

[AnnaS]

She could be Alpine. She's small for an Alpine- they're supposed to be at least 30" at the withers by 4 years. Her size, round bone, ear set and shortish face remind me of Pygmy, not dairy. She does have a lot of dairy breed in her, though.

I like her front end, especially the extension of brisket. Front legs look good, straight and toes forward.

That hind end is a whole 'nother thing. With hind legs set that close, she must have a very narrow rump and a small area of udder attachment. Usually, these two things lead to an early breakdown of udder ligaments. It hasn't happened yet, or we'd be able to see even a dry udder hanging low. She probably doesn't walk comfortably with a full udder either. Her rump is also steep, but that's not as much of an issue as the narrowness.

Hard to put a value on this unknown doe without seeing her udder and production records.

[Raynewolfe]

Height is a rough estimate. I guessed on the lower side. Next to my 30-31 inch does shes at least a couple inches shorter but not much. Shes also just turned 3 not that long ago so maybe she will grow a little more. I will try for a picture from the back. Her rump really isn't all that narrow. Maybe the way shes standing. She produces a lot of milk. Weve never weighed milk but its more than we can drink or even use. We had to start freezing it and even giving some away. And hubby never gets tired of drinking goats milk. She doesnt dry up fast either if being milked. The previous owners milked her over a year before we got her without re breeding.

[chma4]

I thought alpine pygmy also.

[Raynewolfe]

interesting. I guess mixing a pygmy with anything makes them really large. Our pygmies didnt come to my knees (I am 5' 8") and this girl is almost at my waist. Would never have thought it. Thanks guys. Anyone else?

[dragonchick]

I would say she is a Cupine. An alpine mixed with cuteness, more emphisis on the cute side.
DC

[betsy h.]

She could be a Nigerian Dwarf/ Alpine cross- she has the look of an Alpine, but the size and refinement you would see with a full Alpine is not there. I say ND instead of pygmy becasue the dairy/pygmy cross has a different sort of 'look' that this doe does. HEr face and skull would be bigger for one thing....

We had an LM doe bred to a ND buck one year and got goats with bodies and legs like this- good mass, but shorter all around. Look at her cannon bone length- the bone pattern in her legs gives it away. The pygmy would have an even shorter cannon bone that this.

She's a good looking 'utility' doe- and when you get her bred and milking, she will be an asset to you.

[pookshollow]

[QUOTE][We had an LM doe bred to a ND buck one year and got goats with bodies and legs like this- good mass, but shorter all around./QUOTE]

That's interesting. I have a doe out of a Saanen, by a Nigerian buck, and she is no bigger than the full-blooded Nigies. Looks like a miniature Saanen, complete with perfect little udder.

I would also go with AlpineX"something" - she doesn't quite have the look of the Alpines I'm familiar with.

[XCricketX]

she looks a lot like my half alpine, half nubian... but the nubian part is NOT there in her... It's the coloring mostly.

[Jillis]

I have Nupines that look mostly Alpine, except for the offset ears like this doe has. I would suspect a cross with a Nubian and a Nigerian.

She's cute! If she was crossed with a Nigie or Pygmy, the milk will be very rich and sweet, probably.

Blessings, Jill~

[manygoatsnmore]

I would suspect she has some Nubian in her along with the Alpine. Definitely a crossbreed of some type - she just doesn't have the dished face and erect ears of a full Alpine. Being on the small side could be genetic, if she came from smaller stock, or from poor nutrition or cocci infestation when she was young, which would have stunted her growth. As far as value, that depends on how much she milks, and what part of hte country you are in. As a scrub goat (not registered or recorded grade), her monetary value is limited, but if she milks well enough to keep you in more milk than you can drink, I'd say her value to your homestead is pretty high.

[CookingPam777]

I think she a mix. My doe kinda looks like her in coloration and markings. She is Nubian/Alpine. Here's a pic:



You can see her front leg markings are the same. And her coloration is a lot the same. Along with the black back stripe.



Sorry the back round is kinda of yucky we were cleaning up. My milk stand was broke so the grocery bag was tied to the collar. She escaped while we were cleaning. You can see her size marking etc. in the pic.

I think you have a mix but I am not positive.

[AnnaS]

Originally Posted by Raynewolfe

interesting. I guess mixing a pygmy with anything makes them really large. Our pygmies didnt come to my knees (I am 5' 8") and this girl is almost at my waist. Would never have thought it. Thanks guys. Anyone else?

The pygmy/dairy crosses that i've seen do tend to take after the dairy side for size. I had a pair of stray goats here this fall that was a 40 lb Pygmy doe and her still nursing 90 lb son.

I don't think this is a 50/50 cross on this doe. Maybe a 75% dairy 25% Pygmy. i don't think she'd milk as well or as long without a good % of dairy blood.

[pookshollow]

My doe kinda looks like her in coloration and markings.

They're both chamoisee, but that's a colour that's common to Alpines, Nubians and Nigerian Dwarfs, so not a clincher. I have a 3/4 Nubian that colour too.

[Raynewolfe]

Pam, I notice your goats back and hips are a little prominent too. All of mine are also, especially where the back meets the hips and I always feel like i am not feeding them enough... This little one is actually the fattest of my does. Is this a dairy thing or am I missing something? My husbands pet (a kiko whether) definitely looks different in that area.

[pookshollow]

It's a dairy thing. Kikos are a meat breed, so I wouldn't expect to see hipbones on one of those.

My Alpine went to be bred a few weeks ago and my friend said she could do with a bit more weight - I told him she eats like a horse and never puts on weight. His response - "well, she is very dairy".

[CookingPam777]

In this picture we have her almost to health she was very bony and unhealthy. But she still looks a tad skinny. I tried feeding her more and it's just kinda normal for her. So I think it's a dairy thing. Here is a pic when I first got her:

[CookingPam777]

I probably had her a week in those pics. The pics aren't showing how badly you could see the spine and her ribs. Someone told me she was the most pitiful got they had ever seen. Now she is nicer than that person goats. So she did have weight issues.

[pookshollow]

Ooooh, she was in rough shape - poor girl! She looks way better now.

I went to look at some goats a few weeks ago - advertised as milkers at $200. Yikes! Your girl looked fat compared to these poor things. They'd kidded earlier in the year and were no longer nursing, but I was told they'd come back into milk if they were fed alfalfa. Needless to say, I walked away from them PDQ. Much as I would have liked to rescue them, my goats are too nice to risk.

[Raynewolfe]

Wow, mine aren't quite like that. I guess it is just a dairy thing. I have done equine rescue before so I am always worried about whether or not my critters are getting enough to eat. But I don't want to over feed either. You've done a great job with her Pam congrats! I do have one doe thats a bit like that. Mostly in the back end, but she too eats like a horse and has a round bail to munch on. Shes been wormed to so I didn't figure it was something I did. I even offer mineral blocks.