Worming 8 week old Pygmy kids???

jill.costello · #1 12/27/08, 12:53 AM

I'm posting this for a gentleman I bumped into at the Tractor Supply today- he REALLY needed some help! Seems he just got 4 Pygmy kids at an auction and knows nothing about goats at all....

Seems he got them home, and was feeding them straight "sheep and goat medicated feed" ( ack!! ) and NO HAY, NO minerals.......

Actually took them to the vet for dis-budding and to neuter the boy......the boy died the day after neutering.....gentleman blames the vet and won't go back....

As I spoke with him, I decided I had time to go visit his set-up and try to set him on a good path. I talked him into buying a 50# bag of Alfalfa pellets and a good mineral and a tube of Quest (Moxidectin) horse wormer. (Moxidectin is the ingredient in Cydectin)

His three little 8 week old doelings came running to meet us; very alert, good hair coats, and TIGHT, ROUND bellies. (felt like tight, wormy puppy bellies)

I asked if they had been wormed? And he said his wife had been putting wormer pellets in their feed for a day. Brand unknown, labelled for goats.

I told him NOT to dose them with the moxidectin until I had asked you guys if they were old enough yet!

I give my adult goats 3x the horse dose....100 lb goat gets a 300 lb horse dose, etc.

I looked at his hay; it is just orchard grass hay, but very clean and green. I advised him to switch the babies over to the Alfalfa pellets gradually by adding it to the medicated feed they were used to, reducing the old feed as he added the Alfalfa pellets, and to give them hay to munch. He put out the loose minerals and baking soda and they all had a taste of both.

So, are they too young for the moxidectin and if so, what CAN they have?

I turned him on to this site, but he seemed a bit reluctant because of having dial-up.....

FYI, I'm going back there in a week or so to help him with the miniature horse he got at the same auction.......

Bearfootfarm · #2 12/27/08, 01:04 AM

They can be wormed, but if they havent been on pasture they probably dont need it.
The worm pellets he's been using are most likely Safeguard
Any ruminant thats been well fed will have a "tight" stomach, since the digestion process creates a lot of gas.
Check their inner eyelid color and that may tell you if they have Barber Pole worms severe enough to require the Quest

jill.costello · #3 12/27/08, 01:15 AM

He had no way of knowing if they were on pasture or not, as they were auction babies with no mom present; no idea if mom was wormed the day of kidding, either.....

Also, I did strip down, disinfect, and shower when I got home, so nobody worry about Cayenne, Sparky, or Coffee!!

Alice In TX/MO · #4 12/27/08, 06:00 AM

I thought pygmies weren't supposed to have much supplemental feed at all. Just regular hay. I'm confused.

whatknott · #5 12/27/08, 06:59 AM

I agree - I never give my pygmies alfalfa - too rich for them. I've owned pygmies for 25 years. They get timothy/orchard grass hay. I use liquid wormers so you can get a more accurate measurement instead of horse wormers. Ivermectrin or valbazen are my favorites. I give mine some sheep/goat food, but not free choice. I would think the worse problem could be possibly coccidia - they are at the right age and going through a sale barn would increase the risk. But a tight belly usually is not a sign of coccidia.

jill.costello · #6 12/27/08, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatknott

I agree - I never give my pygmies alfalfa - too rich for them. I've owned pygmies for 25 years. They get timothy/orchard grass hay. I use liquid wormers so you can get a more accurate measurement instead of horse wormers. Ivermectrin or valbazen are my favorites. I give mine some sheep/goat food, but not free choice. I would think the worse problem could be possibly coccidia - they are at the right age and going through a sale barn would increase the risk. But a tight belly usually is not a sign of coccidia.

Even the growing Pygmy kids? My bad! I thought they needed the protein for growth!

Well, they've been getting the medicated feed for about a week, and I saw their poops: nice hard berries.

whatknott · #7 12/27/08, 08:05 AM

If you go back, you may want to check for lice too - time of the year where those little buggers pop out everywhere. If wormed with ivermectrin injectable, that will treat most lice, but i usually powder them too with DE, or flea powder for kittens (since they are quite young, I would stay away from regular livestock powder)

Chaty · #8 12/27/08, 08:43 AM

Yep if that young they need cocci prevention and worming also. I worm my kids at 8 wks and then again in 10 days. If he is giving the pelleted wormer it shiould be safe right now. He needs to feed medicated feed with Decoxx in it for prevention for cocci. I feed mine the alfalfa pellets and mione love it as I have Nigerians and some pygmy crosses alsong with the larger dairy breeds. Alfalfa being torich is a myth. Its a good source of calcium and is god for bone growth. I feed it to all of my gaots with no problems. Sounds like shock and maybe a botched job killed the little guy to me as even if they dont show it they are still in shock from the move. I would also check their feet and eyelids . Good luck

jill.costello · #9 12/27/08, 08:46 AM

Hi Chaty, will the moxidectin hurt them at this age?

DQ · #10 12/27/08, 08:58 AM

it could hurt them.

the tube paste of moxidectin will be very hard to dose the kids with especially pygmy kids. if they are eight weeks old then they probably weigh less than 20 lbs and maybe less than 10. the dose for the horse moxidectin is the same as on the label from my understanding. the smallest dose would probably be 250 lbs marked and those kids would need to be dosed appropriatly for their weight that is going to be hard for you to do it would take so little. there are stories of overdosing moxidectin that might be legit unlike safegaurd and such and ivermectin that have extremely high toxic doses. the medicated feed should be fed for at least a month so kill all cocci phases if they are eating the reccomended therapuetic dose. if not then they need another cocci preventative for now. I would check eyelids and if they are nice and pink don't worm them. if they are pale then go from there. fyi pygmys are the most parasite resistant breed and at that age they may not have had much opporunity to pick up parasites to begin with depending on the situation they came from.

hoofinitnorth · #11 12/27/08, 12:02 PM

We are assuming the medicated feed has a coccidistat. We are also apparently assuming that the dewormer pellets are separate from this medicated feed.

In Maryland, I do not know if coccidistat is needed but it probably is a good idea if they have no background information with them and are already weaned at 8 weeks.

Go light on the rich feeds for pygmies as you would with wethers. Pygmies are like the ponies of the goat world - mostly air ferns.

Well, in general. There are always exceptions.