Goat grain?

[christie]

So I have a friend that is a vet tech.
And she tells me that goats can't have any grain not even goat dairy pellets! Not only should the bucks never get grain, but girls as well shouldn't get any either.\
She is even suspicious of the alfalfa pellets I feed cause they are iin pellet form.
What the deal here?
I feed my girls well but I need some convenience too!

[DairyGoatSlave]

i feed grain every day. it helps keep milk production up. maybe you have overweight goats and thats why she recemends not feeding them grain? i use Purina dairy goat chow and minerals as well my girls are just fine. did she give a reason for no grain?

[Alice In TX/MO]

Does she know the difference between meat goats and dairy goats?

[Freeholder]

I think your friend has been misinformed -- not uncommon in the medical profession, unfortunately. They can eat grain (and alfalfa pellets contain only alfalfa). As ruminants, they shouldn't NEED grain, but we've bred them to be so high-producing that some of them, the high-producing ones, do need it. Bucks getting grass hay don't need any grain except when they are in rut; bucks and wethers getting alfalfa hay DO need grain. Alfalfa is high in calcium, and unless balanced by the phosporus in the grain, can form urinary calculi. Doesn't always, but it's more likely to.

You can do your own tests with your own animals by recording the amount of milk you get, the amount of grain you fed, and also checking their body condition regularly. You'll soon figure out how much grain they need to produce efficiently and keep some body condition. Don't feed them any more than they really need --- grain is expensive, and roughage is healthier for them, as it's their natural diet.

Kathleen

[Madfarmer]

There's info on this in the 101 section of dairygoatinfo.com. An article on feeding for rumen development in kids. There's so little good research on goats that your friend probably has only seen an old textbook, or had an old professor, & learned outdated information. You CAN keep goats without grain, sure. But you're not going to get much milk.

Madfarmer

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

What schooling in small ruminants do most vets get? A 4 hour course? None? Most vets who are honest with you will tell you that they only know about goats from their clients who have goats. Not from school. So....how much schooling on anything does a vet tech have? Unless they are coming from a dairy goat or meat goat farm before entering the field, with animals you admire, why on earth would you bother listening to someone like that? She could help you learn to pull blood, fecal if she has learned on a chambered slide....oh and muck barns Vicki

[hoofinitnorth]

Originally Posted by BlueJuniperFarm

bucks and wethers getting alfalfa hay DO need grain. Alfalfa is high in calcium, and unless balanced by the phosporus in the grain, can form urinary calculi. Doesn't always, but it's more likely to.

Looking for some clarification here. I understood that it is an imbalance between CA and P that causes stones, but thought it was not necessarily excessive calcium, say from feeding alfalfa. I would think that if you fed bucks alfalfa, generally a very rich food, *and* grain, you would have obese bucks, except while in rut?

Originally Posted by BlueJuniperFarm

Don't feed them any more than they really need --- grain is expensive, and roughage is healthier for them, as it's their natural diet.

Agree!

[Lizza]

Originally Posted by BlueJuniperFarm

I think your friend has been misinformed -- not uncommon in the medical profession, unfortunately. They can eat grain (and alfalfa pellets contain only alfalfa). As ruminants, they shouldn't NEED grain, but we've bred them to be so high-producing that some of them, the high-producing ones, do need it. Bucks getting grass hay don't need any grain except when they are in rut; bucks and wethers getting alfalfa hay DO need grain. Alfalfa is high in calcium, and unless balanced by the phosporus in the grain, can form urinary calculi. Doesn't always, but it's more likely to.

You can do your own tests with your own animals by recording the amount of milk you get, the amount of grain you fed, and also checking their body condition regularly. You'll soon figure out how much grain they need to produce efficiently and keep some body condition. Don't feed them any more than they really need --- grain is expensive, and roughage is healthier for them, as it's their natural diet.

Kathleen

What Kathleen said

I took a class from a vet last year at a dairy goat conference on metabolic diseases (she actually knows goats and teaches at the vet school in Washington). It was worth driving to the conference just for that one class. She took a five gallon bucket with holes in the sides to show why bred and lactating does need grain (when someone asked this question). She said imagine this bucket filled with water, with one hole unplugged, then I put in 2,3,4, or even 5 bricks and unplug all the other holes, how fast will that water come out now? The needs of our highly bred dairy goats need all the extra nutrition they can get (but like Kathleen said, it is a balance between too little and too much). I'd have to go get my notes but she said an average of 3lbs a day is usually good but needs to be taken on a goat by goat basis, she said you need to take into account whether your animal is over/under conditioned or in my middle, middle ground being what you are shooting for. Also how close to delivering they are.

[christie]

She is an emergency tech at tuft university. And she has goats coming in all the time w/ urinary crystals from the grain. my girls are milk goats but I have dried them up, and only feed alfalfa pellets now. { and boss}
She says all pellets can cause the crystallization even in the girls.
So that is what I am worried about the crystals not milk production.

[DQ]

Originally Posted by christie

She is an emergency tech at tuft university. And she has goats coming in all the time w/ urinary crystals from the grain. my girls are milk goats but I have dried them up, and only feed alfalfa pellets now. { and boss}
She says all pellets can cause the crystallization even in the girls.
So that is what I am worried about the crystals not milk production.

just because it is in pellet form? I don't buy it. it is true that the crystals aren't just exclusive to males. its just that males have longer and narrower urethras and the crystals cause more problems.
I no longer grain. (I am toying with adding some rice bran for my girls who are both growing themselves and their babies to get some extra phos in to balance the calcium in the free choice alfalfa pellets they are getting) my single milker left milks quite adequately for us averaging at around a 1 -3/4 gallon a day on alfalfa alone. my girsl this year all met or exceeded their breeding weight on time on alfalfa alone. there is no doubt that grain has two faces. it can help and it can hurt and whether or not to feed it is often a priority thing and/or very dependent on the particular situation.

[sammyd]

As near as I can tell there are a lot of different ideas on what goats need. I've seen some outlandish recipies for grain that look like a train wreck waiting to happen.
A good well balanced ration in accordance with the roughage and expected production levels should not be a problem.