OK, ladies and gents, check out this site

beccachow · #1 12/25/08, 10:56 PM

What do you all think of these guys/gals? I don't know a thing about pedigree, but you were all so knowledgeable last time. This farm is about an hour and a half away, worth it if they are healthy animals from a clean farm. The October ones will be ready in January (I already like the weaning at 3 months). Any better?

www.beechtreefarm.net

Keep in mind, I don't have a particular favorite breed, just need a hardy one (but I am very partial to floppy ears, so nubian or boer?)

susanne · #2 12/25/08, 11:21 PM

most meat goat breeder do not test for cae and/or cl. cl is very common in boer herds. read up on those diseases as much as you can before you decide to go with meat goats. this breeder doesn't say anything about testing at all.
maybe you need to sit down and think what you really want with your goat? remember, all are very cute as kids, with or without ears. cuteness should not be the main factor to buy.

beccachow · #3 12/25/08, 11:33 PM

My main goat purpose is a pet, no eating, milking, showing, or breeding planned. I am just desperate to find a healthy, hardy breed. I am glad for the warning about boers,(once again proving you guys are the best) since I do NOT need another heartache. I plan on making sure that any goat I get is tested, period.

**mygoat** · #4 12/26/08, 12:24 AM

I would get the animal I would most like to own and use as it should be - a farm animal. Because in all likely hood, you'll want to breed your does to get something back out of them at some point down the road. Meat or milk, it's your choice... but I would leave that option open. Dairy and meat goats can still be pets, as well as a hobby and give back.

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #5 12/26/08, 12:50 AM

Than honestly wait until spring, when wethers are cheap and plentiful. Wethers don;t come into heat, or rut and their care is minimal, in fact their feeding is so minimal that most kill them with kindness by offering them grain. Then do like a friend of mine did, she has one of every dairy breed, a boer, a kiko and will be getting an angora wether this spring. Vicki

jordan · #6 12/26/08, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beccachow

My main goat purpose is a pet, no eating, milking, showing, or breeding planned. I am just desperate to find a healthy, hardy breed. I am glad for the warning about boers,(once again proving you guys are the best) since I do NOT need another heartache. I plan on making sure that any goat I get is tested, period.

Vicki offered very good advice if you are just looking for a pet. Get a few wethers (and don't feed them any grain!). Make sure it is also a bottle baby, so it will be friendly and of a size that you can handle.

Cannon_Farms · #7 12/26/08, 07:44 AM

These are the bloodlines I would look for, but they are meaning less for you.
It is correct that boer breeders are not as good about testing for cl and cae, but every breeder I have talked with has always agreed to let me test and give me the money back if they where positive, if they where negitive then I ate the cost, but its a small price to pay.
I really think for just a pet these may be overpriced, there is some of the top bloodlines in these goats which doesnt mean a hill of beans for a pet, but if you wanted to play around and show a wether, then here would be a good start for your first goat.

susanne · #8 12/26/08, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beccachow

My main goat purpose is a pet, no eating, milking, showing, or breeding planned. I am just desperate to find a healthy, hardy breed. I am glad for the warning about boers,(once again proving you guys are the best) since I do NOT need another heartache. I plan on making sure that any goat I get is tested, period.

becky i think if i would only want a cute little pet, and for reason only you know it should be a goat and not a dog or a cat, i probably would go with nigerian. they stay small, you can cuddle them and if you want to can carry them around much longer. just in case you like her so much and want more, get a little doe. they will live longer without the risk of getting urinary calculi like a wether can get.
the first web site you posted, get in contact with that breeder, visit her and talk. let her know what you want and what you experienced. i'm sure she will show all test results if you ask. maybe she will have just the right kid for you in spring

PurpleMartineer · #9 12/26/08, 09:40 AM

I agree, get a wether. I would get a dairy goat wether since they need homes as a by-product of home/dairy milking, they will come dehorned, and will more likely come from a herd that has been tested (compared to meat goats). I would feel good about supporting someone who wanted to get off the "factory-farming-grid" (so to speak) that way. I have one doe and one wether. My wether is much sweeter and more outgoing than the doe. I have saanens--they are so sensible and sweet natured. I agree as well, if they dont need grain, dont give it. No more for my Pan, his treats are going to be scratches and cuddles from me. I have also purchased plain old scrub goats in the past. They turned out fine and healthy--none were tested for any disease--but that didnt matter to me in a scrub goat, and truthfully, if I knew I had a CAE+ goat of any breed and I wasnt planning to sell or milk, I would be fine with that because its not a death sentence. CL is another story because that is zoonotic (and I think it is more prevalent in meat goat herds so watch out). The scrub goats I had I bought for $15 each, two friendly doelings, they were nubian mixes and lived happily here for quite a while and were a lot of fun (until we gave them away to a friend as pets for thier grandkids). CHeck craigslist, I have seen quite a few family pet goats-in-need-of-homes on there, just talk to the owners and see if they are willing to let you return the goats in the event them come up positive for something you test for and dont want to deal with.

beccachow · #10 12/26/08, 10:45 AM

FYI: response to my e-mail questioning testing:

"we don't test for either CAE nor CL but we keep a closed herd and only had 1 goat ever show signs of CL and it was a doe we purchased from Pennsylvania hoping to introduce some new bloodlines. As soon as the CL lump showed up we sent her to slaughter never getting any offspring from her. I would say that we are as CL and CAE free as you can get never having a problem in almost 5 years. We have 4 does that have kidded in the last week and a-half and 1 more to kid at anytime, then we have some to kid late February early March. I would sell these 2 four day old buck kids for $50.00 each or $100.00 for both kids and their mom but as I said earlier she has mastitis and only a very little milk in one teat.Should never be bred again."

He was referring to a doe who is not producing enough milk for her 4 day old kids. (On the website the doe is Polly). I think that would be too labor intensive for me, but was wondering if that is acceptable as far as CAE/CL testing in case I run into another scenario like this one. Anything is possible, I am also starting to think that I would like to get my daughter involved in 4H, so maybe should fork out a few extra $ for bloodlines and I will start some research along that line of thinking. Like several posters pointed out, I really should keep the options open.

Suzanne, I have two dogs and two cats, a lizard, a hamster, and three horses, lol. The whole thing started with letting some friends house their 4H goat here (Sandy) and her companion, ------; I got super attached and fell in love. Now Sandy is gone, and ------ is going nuts alone. I need a companion in there for him, but wanted to have the experience of a baby. We are all so new to this, and I want so badly to do the right thing for the sake of the animal and myself.

I appreciate your humoring me, and sorry if I am being too "needy," lol. I just went through too much to take chances without input from experienced people, even though I now agree that I have just had a string of very very bad luck.

I'll keep looking and posting the sites I find, and taking the advice given here as far as testing and all. on the bright side, in a couple of years I will be able to help you guys give advice to newbies (

).

Vickie, do you think ------ will be ok alone until Spring? I worry for him, all he does is yell whenever he sees us.

Cannon_Farms · #11 12/26/08, 11:24 AM

has ------ been tested for cl and cae?

susanne · #12 12/26/08, 11:39 AM

becky i would stay far away from somebody that "only think" they are disease free because they don't see a problem. a doe that has not enough milk for her only four days old kids, raise red flags because this could be a sign for cae.
any animal that comes to my farm is tested for cae,cl and johnes just to make sure i don't introduce something contagious to my herd. how in the world do they know after only five years they do not have a communicable disease?? something like cl can show up after years. cae does not always show symptoms but if you move the animals it can be enough stress to make them symptomatic.
only testing will show the true status of a herd.

you could keep your wether with the horses till spring and don't need to add a goat for now

this will also give you some time for healing and the new kid is not in danger to be smothered to death from all your love and feeling guilty for the one you lost

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #13 12/26/08, 11:41 AM

Yes, give him a radio, spend more time with him. My girls and boys live in groups and they yell at me when they see me to. Vicki

beccachow · #14 12/26/08, 11:42 AM

Yup. He was a 4H project destined for a dinner table. He's all good and healthy.

I am in contact now with someone I had been e-mailing through the holidays. She has a couple kids, not bottle fed but handled frequently and friendly. Her farm is within easy driving distance and she has told me in one of our e-mails she would help me out with questions.

You guys made me face one thing head on: I need to get out of the mindset that just any old goat would be ok for a "pet." I will most likely be asking for something from them in the future, whether it's showing or in a few years breeding for my daughter to show. I hadn't thought that far ahead before this. A nice, healthy animal with some sort of potential in the future is what I need, I suspect the herd will be growing slowly through the years. Don't get me wrong, I'll take a rescue or freebie (once I get myself acclimated to the goat world) if I can do right by the animal, but I need to broaden my scope a bit. I was so frantic (as I think you all knew but were too polite to say) to get something else that I could have fallen into another problem if not for you guys patiently helping me out.

And so the search continues...I'll keep you all posted, no doubt about that, lol.

I say it a lot, and I'll say it again. The support you all gave me for Sandy's last month on earth (without flaming me for trying to help her), the advice, the knowledge, the support when I lost Gracie to boot, and the overwhelming responses to my annoying questions as well as the pm's I got when I went "public" looking for a goat; you guys are the best. Don't worry, eventually I will find what I am looking for...then it'll be "guys, she's looking at me funny," "help, she stood in the same place for 5 minutes" and "how many poop pellets should I be counting daily." (you know I am going to be off the deep end with the new one, I already am with ------, poor fella can't fart without me freaking out). Luckily, my hubby goat me that book Goat Medicine and it will be so much easier than trying to google symptoms like I have been. Anyhow, thanks again.

beccachow · #15 12/26/08, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanne

you could keep your wether with the horses till spring and don't need to add a goat for now

this will also give you some time for healing and the new kid is not in danger to be smothered to death from all your love and feeling guilty for the one you lost

I am smiling at this, it is soooo sad but true! You guys are helping me step back and take my time.

Thanks for the input on the testing, I had a feeling that wasn't good enough and that is the reason I'm passing on these guys, too. Didn't know that (go figure) about mastitis, another thing I can throw in my arsenal. You all should read my e-mails now when I query a breeder, I sound like I know something. That is awesome because they won't be as apt to push a "problem" off on me. I went from "I need a goat" to "I need a kid, preferably doeling, CAE/CL tested with proof, I will be visiting your farm, proof of all vaccinations required, please list pedigree." My physical will go from, "ok, she has 4 legs" to checking her butt for signs of diarrhea, checking the pen, looking in her mouth and eyes, assessing mom and dad...I will now be a pain in the butt instead of a pushover.

Jyllie63 · #16 12/26/08, 12:13 PM

Becky, have you thought of alpacas? I see three on the Barter Board that are in Maryland

.

We have both alpacas and goats and quite honestly I enjoy my goats much more than the alpacas. I think you've gotten some good advice. The one person with the doe that has mastitis....have you asked her if you can get a refund if she were to test positive for cae/cl? It really seems like a good deal and the way you are so pro-active in your animals care makes me think you would help that poor momma goat out. Bottle feeding is not a big deal and it's actually kind of fun

.

Cannon_Farms · #17 12/26/08, 03:40 PM

The cl vaccine produces false positives when testing, a big conflict for those of us looking to establish a cl free herd.
Im not saying go out on a limb, but If I had stuck to my guns on the cl/cae testing I would still be without my lovely goats, the new stock Im planning on getting isnt tested but will be. There are of course many false negatives as well.
There is no sure safe way to buy a goat, just didnt want you getting a false security in your head about the testing and vaccinated goats. I wont have one thats been vaccinated over and over again.

HappyFarmer · #18 12/26/08, 04:53 PM

I feel like I have to pipe in here. I raise meat goats & I've tested my ENTIRE herd for CLA, CAE, and Johnes going on 4 years now. Initially TB & Brucellosis was included in the testing. I've purchased my breeding stock from herds that tested also. We keep a closed herd as of 11 months ago, and we don't show limiting any new exposure. We practice biosecurity. We keep up the same standard as any dairy breeder out there. I'll go as far as to say that we go beyond many dairy breeders-based on the fact that many post on this forum about CLA & CAE, but don't add the recommendation Johne's testing-a serious wasting disease. Isn't that important, too?

I feel it's unfair that diary breeders slam meat goat breeders about untested herds. There are plenty of dairy herds that do not test. Personally, I think it's more of a breeder mentality. These diseases cost both dairy and meat breeders a lot of money in lost revenues. It behooves all of us to become informed on these diseases & do our part towards irradification.
HF
Raising her hands because meat breeders care about the future health of our breeds, too!

Cannon_Farms · #19 12/26/08, 04:59 PM

Just curios HappyFarmer as to what your kids start at selling price?

susanne · #20 12/26/08, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyFarmer

I feel like I have to pipe in here. I raise meat goats & I've tested my ENTIRE herd for CLA, CAE, and Johnes going on 4 years now. Initially TB & Brucellosis was included in the testing. I've purchased my breeding stock from herds that tested also. We keep a closed herd as of 11 months ago, and we don't show limiting any new exposure. We practice biosecurity. We keep up the same standard as any dairy breeder out there. I'll go as far as to say that we go beyond many dairy breeders-based on the fact that many post on this forum about CLA & CAE, but don't add the recommendation Johne's testing-a serious wasting disease. Isn't that important, too?

I feel it's unfair that diary breeders slam meat goat breeders about untested herds. There are plenty of dairy herds that do not test. Personally, I think it's more of a breeder mentality. These diseases cost both dairy and meat breeders a lot of money in lost revenues. It behooves all of us to become informed on these diseases & do our part towards irradification.
HF
Raising her hands because meat breeders care about the future health of our breeds, too!

unfortunately, statistics tell a different story. i'm glad that there are some meat goat breeder that are testing. but most of them think the animals are only raised for meat and rarely need to go beyond a year of age. so, what is the point? dairy goat breeder are breeding for long life. the goat should at least be productive for ten years.
see the point here? this was not meant to be a personal attack