Interesting offer...too much for me to handle?

beccachow · #1 12/21/08, 04:46 PM

Thank you to everyone who sent me info on baby goats in Maryland. I have a question on an offer:

I had someone offer me a bred Nigerian doe, due in March. Here is a word for word description as e-mailed to my request:

"Trinket - black and white doe with blue eyes. She is bred though for late March kids. Can sell her outright - or, you can give me the kids back when born (so cheaper price for the doe)...she was a bottle baby and prefers people to other goats

very sweet girl, just not a showable udder......

here is a pic:

http://www.tinytowngoats.com/AFGoatsforSale.html

Browse through the site and see if you recognize any names and if the farm looks reputable.

Now the biggest question:

Is a bred doe too much for my limited knowledge right now? Tell me, I can take it. I'd rather be told I need more experience than risk anything happening to mom and babies.

I also have someone looking into a baby to give to me on Wednesday. More info on that when I get it.

beccachow · #2 12/21/08, 05:22 PM

Hubby just nixed the bred goat idea; he is as afraid as I am. Maybe one day.

waygr00vy · #3 12/21/08, 05:22 PM

Her price seems kind of high to me for a pet quality doe...

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians · #4 12/21/08, 05:27 PM

She has purchased some fine animals and selling off the two worst, the second does rear legs, I can honstly say I have never seen such poor conformation.

I totally give the opposite advice. Having an adult doe, who you can handle until March when she kids, is so much eaiser on you, fed correctly, than kids. If you have the chance to purchase a bred doe who is CAE and CL negative go for it. She can nurse the kids so you don't even have to be totally responsible for the kids or keeping the udder empty. Then 12 weeks later if you choose to wean the kids the milk is yours for as long as you want to milk.

I would have a signed contract for negative tests on the this doe, and for this price, she not only doesn't get the kids back, but you also get a free breeding next year so you don't have to worry about a buck yet. With her nice purchases make sure you breed to one of the bucks out of her champion purchases, not her stock she has now.

For the quality of her stock, it's suprising she doesn't have testing information on her home page. Vicki

delphinium · #5 12/21/08, 06:01 PM

My first goat was a bred nigerian doe. Worked out really well, she was patient as I learned. She had an easy delivery and was a great mom.

Jyllie63 · #6 12/21/08, 06:09 PM

Becky, I think you can handle things either way.....a bred doe or another baby. I just experienced my first kidding season back in May and it turned out fine. I was a nervous wreck and even took a week off of work to make sure I was home if they needed me. All three of my does gave birth on their own with no help from me. But....I had a nice week off of work LOL. Getting a baby is nice because you get to bond with it and let it grow up with you.

Minelson · #7 12/21/08, 06:19 PM

That's what I did...got Gretta and she had horns and was preggos...2 things I didn't want LOL! But I was up for the challenge. I knew NOTHING. I was never present for an actual birth of ANYTHING. I didn't realize that until I brought her home! I have always been around animals and thought I must have but when I thought about it I realized I was there right after but never had the responsibility of pre/post natal care or anything. That's when I joined this forum and if you look back on my post you can see me freaking out and everyone holding my hand through the whole ordeal. It went wonderfully! and I'm so happy I did it. I was all alone with Gretta when she gave birth, DH out of town, and I was completely prepared for anything. And I love my babies! and you can't beat the bonding I have with all Gretta and the twins from the whole ordeal

Just my experience with getting a pregnant doe and it not knowing anything about goats...

moonspinner · #8 12/21/08, 06:40 PM

It seems Trinket is the only doe whose parents are not identified. Do you know the dam and sire?

beccachow · #9 12/21/08, 07:49 PM

I could ask.

Her latest e-mail says $400 for her if I keep the baby, $200 if I give baby back. I am thinking this is way steep, unless her parents were uber-champions, but if she's not show-quality, would that matter? As much as I like the idea, I might have to pass on this due to price. I can't imagine who she bred her to, to bump the price another $50, since she said it would be $350 bred to any buck of choice. I will see if she will work on the price. Said the doe has freshened twice and delivers singles.

One more: would whatever is wrong with the udder (unshowable udder?) affect her nursing, or is that a cosmetic thing?

hoofinitnorth · #10 12/21/08, 08:06 PM

You are already ahead of the game in that you know how to ask questions and seek answers, even if they aren't always readily available.

I think a bred doe would be fine for you, IF you are confident about it. Feeding and kidding preparations are going to be critical. If your area is still cold in March, you may want to go with a doe that is bred later, though. If you area is warm and gets hot by early summer, you may not want to wait that long due to the other issues that come up with that sort of a climate (parasites, namely).

Do you have a local mentor? Joining a local club and getting some folks together that you can call when you need help, even at 1AM, is important, especially for building confidence.

The doe you are asking about is LOVE-R-GOATS TIGGERS TRINKET. It looks like the sire is LOVE-R-GOATS TIGGER BLUEEYES and the dam is ??? unlisted? I found a number in the ADGA pedigree USDA Data page but it didn't have a name or any information with it. AGS does not have an online pedigree database yet. *sigh* I did not find any appraisal history for her on ADGA, nor is she listed as a CH. If she has been classified, AGS doesn't have an online way to look that up yet. I didn't find anything on Google.

I didn't look into a lot of the website but it appears she does milk test and is an ADGA member. However, this goat, who she says has been at her farm for three years now, does not have any milk test data on her. No stars, either. Perhaps she only tests through AGS? Either way, you are supposed to have your entire herd on milk test, not just your best does (except maybe one-day tests??). Maybe she never kept this doe in milk long enough to test and just let her dam-raise her kids. I don't know this breeder's name, but I did not find her herd name on any of the last three years' AGS DHI records (either 305-day test or one-day tests).

I wonder what she means by "not a showable udder"? She also refers to low volume for milk test. What volumes would that be, I wonder? This still might be a nice doe for you to start. Depends on what you want and what your goals are. If you understand what you are buying and how that fits with what you want and your future goals, you can't go wrong. If you leap first and look later, you will probably at least have a sweet pet!

The price, I can't speak to, as in my area, goats are not cheap. $300 is inexpensive for a healthy, clean-tested goat of decent genetics, form, & function, even in this economy. You would not get a breeding included at that price, unless it was part of a large, multiple purchase from a breeder that has known and trusted you or unless you milk test and show goats so that you would help promote her herd as well as your own.

Up here, our prices are high because the options we have to ship in cost considerably more. Unlike you guys, we can't just drive to the next state and pick up a couple of nice goats for $100. We wish!!! Of course then we'd all be overrun (more than we are now) with goats!!! HA!

The other doe Vicki mentioned has some VERY weird-looking hind legs. If we do this long enough, we're all going to have a few odd ducks but... if it is just a photo issue, I would shoot another photo before asking $400+ for that doe. Unless of course prices are higher in her area than our area (and I doubt it).

Togg Lovers · #11 12/21/08, 08:43 PM

That is too much money for a Pet quality goat whose udder is substandard. Try getting a hold of your local 4-H, there are usually youngsters that have bred their does so they can show but don't need all the kids.

togg75 · #12 12/21/08, 09:12 PM

I agree $300 is way too high for an animal that is not show quality. Sounds like the breeder is aware of the faults and is unwilling to try and work with this animal. Look around some more...build some relationships get to know the breeders in your area.

The farm I purchased my animals from have no internet presence, do not advertize for sales and are able to get rid of all the unwanted animals and many,many,many people recommended me to her before I finally purchased animals from her 6 years after I heard about their farm. I glad I finally did.

Great animals, great pricing, great after the sale support. Look around and take your time. In fact when i got to her farm she had already heard about me looking for animals and knew I was looking before I got there. The networks are tighter than you think, don't get railroaded buy a bad breeder.

beccachow · #13 12/21/08, 09:36 PM

Wow, you guys ARE good! I'll have to work with her on price.

I'll try to contact the 4H clubs (excellent thought).

I'm still not sure I can convince hubby of a bred goat. He went into instant panic mode. I like the idea, scared, but like it.

BethW · #14 12/21/08, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beccachow

Wow, you guys ARE good! I'll have to work with her on price.

Becca, Jane Bailey is a frequent poster on a Yahoo group for ND goats that I subscribe to. She's very friendly and seems knowledgeable. I'd be surprised if she wasn't willing to work with you.

If for some reason it doesn't work out, and you're willing to drive to northern Virginia, I know an ND breeder in Fauquier County who is a delightful and knowledgeable lady and whose support for newbies is really wonderful.

jordan · #15 12/21/08, 10:02 PM

First off, prices on good ND's aren't cheap anymore and $350 -$500 for a good doe or even one with potential is pretty normal. That being said, this doe isn't good, her conformation is very poor and the breeder admits that her udder isn't up to snuff either. Pass on her!! She has too many strikes to make it worth your while regardless of what you want the doe for (milk or breeding). I would not sell this doe as anything but a non-breeding pet.
Keep looking around and familiarize yourself with the genetics that are out there. You can find a decent doe, that if not great, can still be improved upon when bred to a very good buck.
Lois

Minelson · #16 12/21/08, 10:12 PM

Your DH is probably scared because of everything you guys have gone through recently with Sandy and Gracie. He might want the risk factor as low as possible because it hurts him to see you sad. There are risks with everything but I do understand why he is hesitant.

beccachow · #17 12/21/08, 10:15 PM

Can a goat survive a 3 hour drive in the back of an SUV with no ill effects? If so, I very well might take you up on that.

Can someone point me to a good general conformation site for goats, or is it all breed specific? Like horses have general over-all good conformation points to start from, and then it gets more breed specific.

BethW · #18 12/21/08, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beccachow

Can a goat survive a 3 hour drive in the back of an SUV with no ill effects? If so, I very well might take you up on that.

Our boys did fine for the two hours it took us to drive them home. We put a tarp in the back of DH's Jeep Cherokee, bedded it with a layer of shavings and brought a small bucket of water. The breeder sent us home with a bale of hay, so they ate a little and then lay down and chewed the rest of the way home

Of course, I sat in the back with them, too. You should have seen the looks we got, going down the interstate

CookingPam777 · #19 12/21/08, 10:29 PM

I hate when your post goes down the drain grrrr! Anyhow I had a goat to offer but figured you did not live in MD. It would be a while. I have a Nubian/Apline doe just bred. I would love to give her babies to a loving home. I am just wanting to get her in milk. I would give you the doe if I was not as attached as I am to her. She was a rescue goat. If you are interested in a baby from her PM me and we can discuss it. I know how rough it has been to go through what you have been through. As you have read I have been there. So I do want to help the best I can. I would keep the babies till they got all the colostrum. You can have however many she has. If you just want one that is fine to.

beccachow · #20 12/21/08, 10:34 PM

CookingPam, you're gonna tell me you would look at those furry goat faces and give them up? I googled Goat Rescue in Md and had no hits, maybe I typed something wrong. Which organization did you use? I would be on board for keeping in contact, I imagine the little herd is going to explode. I have plenty of fenced area for them. Thank you!