LGD folks, need your brains please

Goat Servant · #1 12/15/08, 06:06 PM

This Anatolian is 2 1/2 yrs old, got him at about 12 weeks from a dairy goat farm out of working parents.
He spent a good month right outside the goat pen till my girls got comfortable with his presence.
Usual amount of puppy stuff...each doe took their turn putting him in his place.
Whoa...never did see Grace the only Nubian herd Queen bash him around. She is the only one without horns.
One instance he nipped a Boer's vulva in his first year. The following day he nipped my hand and got rolled big time.
Last spring he lacerated Grace's rear leg. At the time I was milking her. since then he has been in his own pen next to them.
The only time he is in with the goats is under supervision.
One morning I woke up to find him in with the goats. Several days later I learned that a cougar had been spotted in the area that day.
Last night we put him in with goats. This am he was jumping on Grace. A quick "NO" yelled out the window he backed off. No broken skin on her.
He is now back in his own pen. He cannot do this to her.
What I want to know is why is he picking on Grace? She is the only milk doe (not milking now) She is a darker color without horns. What could possibly be going through his head? And how do we handle this?Btw the shock collar broke.

powderhooves · #2 12/15/08, 08:53 PM

Gosh don't you wish you could ask them and get an answer? My little Serendipity is regularly picked on by the other goats. Gabby had been jumping her too. Made me so mad. I thought it was over but my friend, who is living with us right now, told me she caught Gabby with Serendipity's back leg in her mouth and she was pulling on her. Maybe they are just like kids (human) picking on the meekest one. If you figure it out, let me know.

Bearfootfarm · #3 12/16/08, 09:14 AM

I'd get a new shock collar, and when you have time, put him in with them and watch from a distance. Any time he gets agressive, ZAP him. Dont be so close that he will associate it with you, and dont yell at him before you shock him. You want him to think the GOAT did it.
I think since he doesnt stay with them all the time, he's probably excited and mostly just "playing" with them, but unforutunately, that involves biting. Once he learns they will shock him if he mouths them, I think your problem will resolve itself.

Goat Servant · #4 12/17/08, 05:25 PM

Thanks Bearfoot for your input!
Im trying to understand why he needs to pick on her...not that it's acceptable.
When I was first posting it suddenly dawned on me that I had never seen her put him in her place...just forlorn "Maaa!" when he was bugging her.
BTW it was a front leg not rear.
While looking out there the other evening it appeared she was trying to rub her head on him. Not rearing up but trying to show acceptance?
Trying to think like an LGD is not easy especially when its our first one.

HappyFarmer · #5 12/17/08, 07:06 PM

I'm thinking the doe rubbing him is not a sign of affection, but a warning sign to the dog. I have several older does that do this to my male, they accept him as their guardian, yet every chance they get they do this rub/slight butt type action, kinda reminding him to behave (though he is). Perhaps the doe IS putting him in his place and his reaction is to bite her?

It's hard to pinpoint what is going on without being there. My first thought is that the dog knows that those horns can hurt, so rather risk getting poked he picks on the hornless goat. Or, perhaps this doe is sick in some way not visible to you and he is singling her out, (I doubt it though).

My last thought is that at 2 1/2 years old, this dog should have settled into his guardian role-about a year ago. Is he purebred? He should not be picking on any of his charges at his age. LGD's tend to take up to 2 years to mature, yes, but he's now 2 1/2. Have you observed him with the herd minus the hornless doe, and for any great length of time? My point is that he may not be guardian material, even some purebreds aren't lgd material. He cannot protect the herd if he is penned off from the herd.

I think the shock collar used as described might be a good idea, actually I think it's the best way to go. This dog need correction. Even with this correction, if he is not lgd material "its" just not there.

I would start with his interactions with the rest of the herd-segregate the doe, not the dog. Find out if he is lgd material over the course of a month or two. I would also put some toys, balls, & rawhide bones in the pen-perhaps he's bored. Then, start the corrections with the shock collar. If that fails I would find another guardian, your herd at this time is not what I consider protected.

HF