Update on blood draw (some problems with PAVL)

[Lizza]

I wanted to thank everyone for the help on the blood draw information a few weeks ago. We had a few problems with PAVL though.

They were very nice and quick but I think got our tests mixed up. I've been using WADDL in Pullman Washington because I've been going through my vet and that is who he uses. We have too many goats to have the vet do them all anymore and I was looking at sending in 14 samples. PAVL was much cheaper then WADDL so I originally sent them off to PAVL. We called that Friday and they said two goats were positive for CL (everyone was CAE negative), which made no sense on the two goats, one is a pet that never leaves and has already tested negative by WADDL and another one was just over 6 months, never left our property, and has only been around a negative herd. Now, if it was one of the other newer ones that had only one negative test on file and then came positive I might have been more worried. They also said our "sheep" was negative. Then I get our paperwork in the mail. It said "Caspian" - the sheep - was Border Line Positive CL. Fine but for one thing they already said he was negative over the phone and well.......we don't have a sheep named "Caspian". His name is Yoda and I only put "sheep" down on the tube and paperwork because it was the only sheep I have and I didn't want it mixed up with the goat’s tubes. I called, they said the paperwork was right and the phone confirmation was wrong and "Caspian" was borderline positive and it was my "Sheep".

Anyways, I saved myself no money because I re-tested with WADDL and everyone is indeed negative (CAE and CL - I retested both tests just for good measure). I really am not trying to bash PAVL, they were nice and offered to re-test for free my positives; I just didn't trust them any longer with the blood.

Again, I usually don't like to post negative comments but I thought this information might help others trying to feel their way around their own testing.

Thank goodness my herd all tested negative!!!!!

[betsy h.]

Honestly, I'd retest with WADDL or Bio-tracking. I do not trust PAVL, never have. Or pull blood and send to your state lab- usually can be done for free- but most use AGID (about 65% accurate) and send blood to UCDavis for CL as they are the gold standard for CL testing.

Keep in mind that I put no stock in CL testing of any kind if the goat has been exposed in any way.

True enough, there have been mis-reads through WADDL, but the ELISA is a better choice at 85-90% accurate, possibly better than that. CO St. can also do the PCR test for CAE to see if it is antibodies or the actual virus that the goat has.

[moonspinner]

I've heard that CL testing is not always reliable?

[susanne]

"I've heard that CL testing is not always reliable?"

the name given on the tubes is
i've heard about so many false test results with this lab that i would not use it.

i would compare test results with management. consistency is the key.
regular testing will give you a feeling if the result is true or could be false. it will give an overall view of herd health regarding comunicable disease.
i do not believe in diseases popping up out of the blue.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

PAVL Elissa tests for CL. Being postitive on blood for Elissa means what?
UC Davis tests Chi for CL. Being positive on blood, it means what?
WSU sent your blood to UC Davis for years if you asked WSU to blood test for CL. They ran Elissa in their lab, why would they do that?

Like with Johnees, a test on blood with Elissa is meaningless, test poop on the same test or on AGID and it is a much better answer. Exude from CL tested on Elissa at any lab in the country that runs Elissa has a much different meaning.

Positive for toxoplasmosis on blood only means your doe has had toxo in a low enough level to build immunity. Positive on fetal material from an abortion storm means you have an active case in your herd right now.


So in testing, make sure you know what you are testing for, and how to get the best results. It has much less to do with a lab than it does the test that is being done. And how you read the results. Testing anymore with labs who will not give you titer levels is just about meaningless unless you simply want a negative test to put on your website.

I am not a fan of WSU, not in the actual test but in the non response to any new information after tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dairy goat dollars pumped into that lab, not one new piece of information since the inseption of thier new improved Elissa test?

In their first year out biotracking.com has given us the titer levels we have asked and asked for elsewhere. They will get my money. I will always us PAVL for everything else. Vicki

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Sorry double post...........

[Lizza]

Thank you for the information Vicki. Of course I want an actual test and not just a negative for the website, why would I go through the trouble of doing everything I can to keep a clean herd for just a piece of paper. So far I have been happy with WSU but I would love to have a titer test included. I believe WADDL does a titer test on any positive though? I'll have to double check that.

We actually just talked with WSU a few weeks ago about their Veterinary program for our oldest daughter and have been impressed with their academic program. My daughter will be getting her BS of Animal Studies here in state though so it will be some time before we decide on a vet program. I didn't know that about the dairy dollars pumped in with no new information, I'll have to look into that.

Edited: Is UC Davies a better test? I would like to find a lab I trust and like and keep with them.

[Lizza]

I have also heard that the only true test of CL is from the puss of the abscess, baring that we can only do the best we can with management. Like I said, if I am going to include blood testing in with that management I would rather include a lab that can keep track of a vial of blood. It just shows some "messy" lab practices, in my humble opinion.

Like Susanne, I believe these diseases don't pop out of nowhere. I do know some people do not care about CL and let it run through their herds, I am not one of those people and try my best to keep only clean goats.

[susanne]

WSU does the cl testing, not sending the samples to uc-davis anymore. both are using synergistic hemolysis inhibition (SHI) for testing.
difference between the two labs, uc-davis send the titer and wsu only positive or negative, like the cae test result.
the only thing that interest me, is the result that says positive or negative.
up to now, i had good response from WSU and they answered any questions.
if in doubt, they also tell about titer and if there was a change from last testing.

[Lizza]

Originally Posted by susanne

WSU does the cl testing, not sending the samples to uc-davis anymore. both are using synergistic hemolysis inhibition (SHI) for testing.
difference between the two labs, uc-davis send the titer and wsu only positive or negative, like the cae test result.
the only thing that interest me, is the result that says positive or negative.
up to now, i had good response from WSU and they answered any questions.
if in doubt, they also tell about titer and if there was a change from last testing.

Thank you for the information Susanne.

[Lizza]

I wrote last night to WSU to see if they automatically do a titer test on positive animals and am going to post his reply below, for those interested.

<<Re: "My question was is if anyone is positive on CL do you do a Titer test automatically or would I need to request it. "

Hello,
Any positive samples are titered for an endpoint without request. The screen saves us reagents and work, but identifies any positive animals. All the positive animals are then titered to evaluate how elevated the antibody response is, which helps in decisions regarding that animal. When you get the titer, you can then discuss with your veterinarian the course of action. Titers may be low from past exposure or vaccine, or high due to active infection.
Hope this helps>>

[susanne]

this was exact info i had from them as well as from uc-davis